Acme B2 4 ohm owners.... question!

jazz3625tonic · #1 06-02-2010, 08:04 PM

Here's the set up: Hartke LH500 (500 watts @ 4 ohms) and a single Acme B2 4 ohm cabinet. I know a lot depends on the venue itself as far as tile floors, long rooms etc... but what size shows could I get away with using this rig? Again, I know there will be variables, just want to get a basic idea. I would only play in small to mid size venues. (bar, small club, VFW Hall etc...) Thanks!

msquared · #2 06-02-2010, 08:23 PM

Mine is an 8 ohm, but I will chime in anyway.

I used to play drums with the original owner of mine, and we played a weekly blues gig in a place about the size you're talking about. He ran it with a Mesa M2000 head. I had the chance to hear it both from behind the kit and a couple times with other drummers sitting in. I felt that it worked fine and he didn't really have it cranked.

Since buying it from him I've run it with a variety of heads in a variety of rooms, and have never had a problem.

As with any situation of running a small single cab, I recommend getting an amp stand to put the cabinet up closer to your head.

jazz3625tonic · #3 06-02-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msquared

Mine is an 8 ohm, but I will chime in anyway.

I used to play drums with the original owner of mine, and we played a weekly blues gig in a place about the size you're talking about. He ran it with a Mesa M2000 head. I had the chance to hear it both from behind the kit and a couple times with other drummers sitting in. I felt that it worked fine and he didn't really have it cranked.

Since buying it from him I've run it with a variety of heads in a variety of rooms, and have never had a problem.

As with any situation of running a small single cab, I recommend getting an amp stand to put the cabinet up closer to your head.

I did think about that... I guess I was under the impression that the Acme's liked being coupled with the floor? Maybe on the floor on end?

msquared · #4 06-02-2010, 09:33 PM

No offense to any of the audio rocket scientists here, but I find that depending on the effects any cab/stage coupling is a bad trap to get into. There are already enough variables when dealing with a room and PA and all of that crap. Having a cab up on a stand is an added measure of consistency and keeps everything from getting muddied up from a vibrating stage.

But what works for you is what works for you.

Jefenator · #5 06-03-2010, 12:24 AM

Small to mid-sized venues - that sounds about right for the B-2.

No amp stand/milk crate for me, thanks very much.

jazz3625tonic · #6 06-03-2010, 04:36 AM

I do appreciate the advice thus far. It's all good.

Pat C. · #7 06-03-2010, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msquared

As with any situation of running a small single cab, I recommend getting an amp stand to put the cabinet up closer to your head.

Some people do prefer elevating the cab, but it has it's disadvantages.

When a cab is on the floor it generally will couple with the floor resulting in a higher gain in the lower frequencies. This is probably how the frequency response of bass cabinets is measured by the manufacturer, so if you elevate the cabinet off the ground you're reducing the low end response of the cabinet. This may be a non-issue with a cab like the Acme since it has such good, deep response, or it can be a huge issue for those players that would like to retain that response at all times.

The other issue that can pop up is boundary cancellation. Low frequency cancellation can occur at the frequency whose quarter wavelength away from the floor. This may not be a big deal, but could result in a notched frequency somewhere in the low end, depending on the distance of the cab to the floor.

Some people aren't aware of these potential downsides to elevating the cab, but they should be before they decide how they position it. Or they can just try it a few different ways and see what they like best.

------------------

As for the OP's original question, I had an old school B2 back in the mid nineties and did not feel it had enough output by itself for anything other than a rehearsal or low volume gig situation. I ended up pairing it with a 1x15" and then a 1x18" to get enough volume for gigging situations, and this was just for stage reinforcement since I had PA support for all of those shows as well. I was powering my B2 at it's rated 350 watt power handing, but it may have actually been underpowered due to it's inefficiency. I can't comment on the performance of the newer cabs.

BassmanPaul · #8 06-03-2010, 11:38 AM

For me the best stand for a B2 is another B2. To some extent I'll go along with Pat's post. A B2 is surprisingly loud for the size of the box. I use one to rehearse with. To gig I use a pair. Stacked vertically a pair is wonderful and takes up the same stage area as one. I'd not thought of pairing with a different size or make of speaker. It's something I'd never do anyway. Having bought one I simply bought a second, then a third and fourth. I still just use my original pair of Series One cabinets which I retrofitted with speakons when the phone jacks became intermittent.

All my cabinets are 4Ω. I was intending to use a SS power amp that was 2Ω capable and the lower impedance was a better fit for that. I used a Mackie FR1400 at first but switched over to a Carvin DCM1000 shortly thereafter. I've just switched again to a Carvin BX1500 to reduce the weight my old bones have to pick up.

Bottom line IME, one will cover a lot of gigs but being so conservative with my stuff as I am, two would be better.

Paul

mntngrown · #9 06-03-2010, 11:59 AM

I use a two amp 600 watt ea side and stack 2 4 ohm like Paul.
Love it! Your 550 watt is a good match for a 4 ohm B2 IMO.
Only thing I would advise is prudence due to Acme's reputation for quickly, w/o warning creasing cones when pushed too hard. I have no experience with that other than buying a used one with new speakers from a youth music guy who managed to crease his.
A VFW hall death metal gig, Not. Blues gig Yes.
Bluesysoul might chime in here. I think he posted about using 1 4 ohm outside on occassion.

mrpackerguy · #10 06-03-2010, 12:52 PM

Obviously a lot depends on how loud you and your bandmates play. Some folks, mostly the metal and punk guys, can never seem to get enough volume out of their Acmes. For a small room, a B2 is fine. It can work in a larger room as long as the drummer is of moderate volume. I run a B4 for nearly every situation along with my choice of either my Carvin B1500, Carvin B2000 or my Mesa Mpulse 600. However, this weekend, we are in a smaller room and tight on band space, so I'll be running the B2 prolly with the Mesa or will just use my Walkabout Scout.

lo-freq · #11 06-03-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msquared

No offense to any of the audio rocket scientists here, but I find that depending on the effects any cab/stage coupling is a bad trap to get into. There are already enough variables when dealing with a room and PA and all of that crap. Having a cab up on a stand is an added measure of consistency and keeps everything from getting muddied up from a vibrating stage.

But what works for you is what works for you.

~ditto~

wcriley · #12 06-03-2010, 06:56 PM

I've used a single 4 ohm B-2 for a few years, powered with a G-K 1001.
I either stand it on end tilted up at me, or put it horizontally on a stand.
I've over-estimated its capability a few times when I tried to carry smaller rooms without PA support and ran into distortion problems. It's only a 2x10, afterall.

jazz3625tonic · #13 06-03-2010, 07:32 PM

At 78 lbs and and a lot lighter than most other 4x10's I think I'm going to go with the B4 4ohm cab and the Hartke LH1000. Then later I'll pick up a 8 ohm B2... schlep it to practice and use the 4x10 at the gig. The LH1000 will put 750 watts into the 8 ohm B2 and 1100 watts into the 4 ohm B4. (bridged)

Bluesy Soul · #14 06-03-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

For me the best stand for a B2 is another B2...

I have to agree with Paul on this issue. We have different philosophies about how much power to feed Low B-2s, but I also love the sound and modularity of combining them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mntngrown

...Bluesysoul might chime in here. I think he posted about using 1 4 ohm outside on occassion.

I generally use one Low B-2 at small-to-medium venue gigs; but due to time, size and other constraints, I did use one outside--with a short overhang--a couple of years ago and it KILLED. I, too, often use a stand for consistency; but not that day. With the floor coupling and short overhang I had that bright and sunny afternoon, people told me they heard clear and forceful bass from nearly a block away!

At my age, I'm finally starting to succumb to the notion of not schlepping cabs that weigh much more than 50 lbs., so multiple Low B-2s have worked very well for me (despite those #@%^&* cups in the side that Andy calls "handles"). If you have vehicle space and don't mind handling the Low B-4, however, it should work great with 1100 watts. And now, of course, you can get your Series II Low-B cabs with a Duratex finish if you prefer. And I'd at least talk to Andy about those #@%^&* "handles" on the Low B-2.

Z-Bass · #15 06-04-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz3625tonic

At 78 lbs and and a lot lighter than most other 4x10's I think I'm going to go with the B4 4ohm cab and the Hartke LH1000. Then later I'll pick up a 8 ohm B2... schlep it to practice and use the 4x10 at the gig. The LH1000 will put 750 watts into the 8 ohm B2 and 1100 watts into the 4 ohm B4. (bridged)

I agree with going this route. My experience was using a 4 ohm B2 using my WT-400 Eden Traveler. The 2x10 does sound surprisingly big for it's size but I always felt I was on the verge of pushing it too hard and could use more volume. So I'd go the 4 ohm B4 route or two 8 ohm B2's as others have mentioned.