Acme Flatwound x 2 vs. Fearful 15/6

3rdcurve · #1 10-08-2011, 06:53 PM

So I am changing my rig again. After many months of trolling the amp threads my decision has come to an Acme B112 Flatwound stack or a fearful 15/6 cab. The cost is the same. The Acme stack would be modular and slightly more portable, and I have one on its way now. Andy has a 2 week trial period, so I can at least compare the Flatwound to my Bag End cabs.

I play a P bass with flats and go for more of a classic rock tone, so high end doesn't really come into play. I am running a Streamliner 900 so power shouldn't be an issue.

The acmes give up quite a bit of sensitivity to the fearfuls, but I am not sure just how big of a difference that will make. The more conventional single driver cab will more likely give me the mids I am used to with my Bag End S15-d's. I am wondering if the B112 stack will have comparable lows and output to a 15/6, or a pair of 12/6's. A pair of 12/6's would cost quite a bit more than the flatwounds, and would only be an option if I did the build myself.

Anyone have any input?

Jazzdogg · #2 10-08-2011, 07:08 PM

Subscribed.

I thought a Thunderchild-AF would be my next cab until I heard Ken's clip comparing the Thunderchild to the Acme Full Range.

In my case, I'm looking for a cab, or pair of cabs, that can give me what I need for both DB and fretless electric 5-string. Maybe an Acme Full Range for DB, a Flatwound with P-bass for R&B gigs, and the pair for LOUD gigs.

Eager to read about your experiences!

rpsands · #3 10-08-2011, 07:18 PM

You may want to consider a 15/sub if you're a Pbass with flatwounds guy. Saves you about 200 bucks off of the build cost and is going to be pretty close to the output of a pair of flatwounds.

Then, if you need more mids, go with a headcase

Jazzdogg · #4 10-08-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

You may want to consider a 15/sub if you're a Pbass with flatwounds guy. Saves you about 200 bucks off of the build cost and is going to be pretty close to the output of a pair of flatwounds.

Then, if you need more mids, go with a headcase

Wow! 10 dB louder! Thanks for the recommendation! Do you know if anyone has added a rear-firing tweeter to their "headcase?"

rpsands · #5 10-08-2011, 08:24 PM

I don't know but I doubt it. There are a few nice examples of headcase builds out there on GB's forums.

There are some disadvantages to putting the mid/hf in a top cabinet but they're relatively minor. It's a cool thing for modular stuff, and most people need a place to put cables and stuff anyway.

Passinwind · #6 10-08-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Wow! 10 dB louder! Thanks for the recommendation! Do you know if anyone has added a rear-firing tweeter to their "headcase?"

Yep, but it's not a fEARful build per se, nor a direct Thunderchild knockoff.

Jazzdogg · #7 10-08-2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Yep, but it's not a fEARful build per se, nor a direct Thunderchild knockoff.

I should have known it would been you, Charlie; ever adventurous!

KJung · #8 10-10-2011, 03:29 AM

Pretty hard to go wrong with either of those and a Streamliner with a P Bass.

You would get more absolute, deep low end with the Acme stack (which can be a good or bad thing, depending on your tonal preference). The 15/6 will be a bit more extended into the lower treble region than two Flatwounds. I would STRONGLY recommend the Flatwound/FullRange stack if you end up going that direction. The Streamliner treble control can tame the top end of the FullRange nicely, and that would be a killer modular rig, for large and small gigs.

15/6... advantages... single cab solution, relatively lightweight and small for the output. Nice organic upper mid extension that works well with a P Bass, and handles overdrive nicely. Disadvantages... wait time for the build to happen.

Acme FullRange/Flatwound stack. Advantages... low end extension like few other rigs, absolutely magnificent match-up for the Streamliner and a P bass, nice modularity, with lots of flavors using the Flatwound alone, the FullRange alone or the stack. Disadvantages... relatively large 112, so that stack would take a pretty good size cart to schlep around, and be heavier than a single 15/6

For your head and bass, it would be the Acme stack all the way for me, especially if you do a variety of gigs and rehearsals, etc. that could benefit from being able to take one or both.

IMO, you would be happy with either solution! Zero issue on sensitivity IMO, since the Streamliner has the power to drive both rigs to pretty much full volume, and the 4ohm impedance of the two 8ohm Acme stack would help 'make up the difference'.

Bluesy Soul · #9 10-10-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdcurve

So I am changing my rig again. After many months of trolling the amp threads my decision has come to an Acme B112 Flatwound stack or a fearful 15/6 cab. The cost is the same. The Acme stack would be modular and slightly more portable, and I have one on its way now. Andy has a 2 week trial period, so I can at least compare the Flatwound to my Bag End cabs.

I play a P bass with flats and go for more of a classic rock tone, so high end doesn't really come into play. I am running a Streamliner 900 so power shouldn't be an issue.

The acmes give up quite a bit of sensitivity to the fearfuls, but I am not sure just how big of a difference that will make. The more conventional single driver cab will more likely give me the mids I am used to with my Bag End S15-d's. I am wondering if the B112 stack will have comparable lows and output to a 15/6, or a pair of 12/6's. A pair of 12/6's would cost quite a bit more than the flatwounds, and would only be an option if I did the build myself.

Anyone have any input?

I have a Fearful 15/6 that Don at LDS built for me for me last year, as well as a Flatwound/FullRange stack. I've played both outdoors as well as at medium and large indoor gigs. Despite the apparent disparity in sensitivity, neither has ever let me down in volume or power handling.

Right now I'm grabbing either or both the Acmes for every gig for the following reasons:
1 - I like a lot of bottom end and the Acmes simply have more of it than the 15/6 (or anything else I've found);
2 - When I do crank the 15/6, its mid-rangey character becomes more prevalent--which I don't prefer. KJ has told me he thinks it's me --not the cabinet--and that I'm simply not used to that tone because I don't seek it. He's undoubtedly right. In any case, I hear a change in the frequency response of the 15/6 as it gets louder--"Here comes the gank!"--whereas the Acme seems to retain it character at all volumes.
3 - the Acmes are easier to transport and to load in and out. Now that Andy put those top handles on the Series IIIs, they are very easy to carry with one hand. Two smaller cabinets also provide more flexibility for stage placement and for loading in your car, truck or van. The 15/6 is light for its size and capabilities, but it's still a larger box to deal with. (And for small-to-medium size gigs, nothing beats a single Acme 112.)

I usually play a P-bass with Thomastik Jazz flats and normally perform blues, classic rock. classic R&B and some country and jazz. If I played newer, alternative rock or funk with a lot of slap, I would undoubtedly have different preferences.

Just my $.02. Hope it helps.

::::BASSIST:::: · #10 10-10-2011, 02:21 PM

Wow, those Acmes must have a huge low-end (extreme?) then because the fEARful 15/6 has the most beautiful, deep and clear lows that I have ever heard.

rpsands · #11 10-10-2011, 02:28 PM

1. Don does not use the CBG crossover. That undoubtedly is going to make your mids sound a lot worse overall, quite possibly worse the louder it gets. The quality of the crossover is a BIG deal in these builds. I swapped my LDS xover out for a CBG official model and could tell the difference easily.

2. Someone who likes the Acme low end is probably a candidate for using the port shelf extension on the fEarful. The Acmes are tuned lower.

KJung · #12 10-10-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

1. Don does not use the CBG crossover. That undoubtedly is going to make your mids sound a lot worse overall, quite possibly worse the louder it gets. The quality of the crossover is a BIG deal in these builds. I swapped my LDS xover out for a CBG official model and could tell the difference easily.

2. Someone who likes the Acme low end is probably a candidate for using the port shelf extension on the fEarful. The Acmes are tuned lower.

Don uses a custom crossover from his crossover guy, and it is a thing of beauty. Some of the off the shelf crossovers sound a bit different, but none that I've ever played sound bad in any way. Ralph's custom crossover is a beautiful thing, as is Greenboy's. I've cranked about a dozen of these up, including a couple with the CBG crossover. All are more similar than different. My favorite is Ralph's crossover with the 12/6 with the Faital mid driver... wonderful sounding!

If you are a player like the poster who uses flats and likes the sound of a one way cab, the upper mid response can be a bit much in the 15/6 cabs if you don't have EQ tuned to remove the upper mid gank.

KJung · #13 10-10-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

Wow, those Acmes must have a huge low-end (extreme?) then because the fEARful 15/6 has the most beautiful, deep and clear lows that I have ever heard.

+1 Andy's reason for being as a bass cabinet designer is to reproduce the fundamental of the open B string with as little roll-off as possible. One of the things that Greenboy and Alex tried to achieve is to provide a great low end tuning without the huge hit to efficiency that results from trying to reproduce those below 40hz fundamentals. The 15/6 and 12/6 cabs do that nicely, and would have more than enough low end for virtually anyone IMO. That being said, there is something wonderous about hearing virtually NO reduction in fundamental volume with the Acme 112's as you play down to the open B.

rpsands · #14 10-10-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Don uses a custom crossover from his crossover guy, and it is a thing of beauty. Some of the off the shelf crossovers sound a bit different, but none that I've ever played sound bad in any way. Ralph's custom crossover is a beautiful thing, as is Greenboy's. I've cranked about a dozen of these up, including a couple with the CBG crossover. All are more similar than different. My favorite is Ralph's crossover with the 12/6 with the Faital mid driver... wonderful sounding!

If you are a player like the poster who uses flats and likes the sound of a one way cab, the upper mid response can be a bit much in the 15/6 cabs if you don't have EQ tuned to remove the upper mid gank.

I would doubt that you have played any with the CBG crossover if they came from Don. The crossover I got from Don was supposedly Passinwind's crossover but turned out to have nothing in common with it (not even the same topology). So, take what is in those things with a grain of salt.

All I can say with certainty is that getting the variable LPad and swapping crossovers out made a significant difference in the pleasantness in the mids for me.

rpsands · #15 10-10-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 Andy's reason for being as a bass cabinet designer is to reproduce the fundamental of the open B string with as little roll-off as possible. One of the things that Greenboy and Alex tried to achieve is to provide a great low end tuning without the huge hit to efficiency that results from trying to reproduce those below 40hz fundamentals. The 15/6 and 12/6 cabs do that nicely, and would have more than enough low end for virtually anyone IMO. That being said, there is something wonderous about hearing virtually NO reduction in fundamental volume with the Acme 112's as you play down to the open B.

-6db is a pretty sizable reduction.

KJung · #16 10-10-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

-6db is a pretty sizable reduction.

Less than virtually any other commercially available cab.

rpsands · #17 10-10-2011, 04:14 PM

True, but -6db is a far cry from "NO reduction."

3rdcurve · #18 10-10-2011, 04:19 PM

Thanks BluesySoul and KJung for your input. I really think that these acmes are what I am looking for. If 2 of them with the Streamliner maxed out can't keep up, then I'll just have to chuck something at the guitards till they fall in line.

I may keep my 810.........just in case.

rpsands · #19 10-10-2011, 04:19 PM

Also, should seriously try a fEarful 15 sub, if you're a flatwound guy. For a 4-stringer it'll do the job of two flatwounds and not give up that much in the mids. Maybe a half octave or so in the upper mids.

rpsands · #20 10-10-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdcurve

Thanks BluesySoul and KJung for your input. I really think that these acmes are what I am looking for. If 2 of them with the Streamliner maxed out can't keep up, then I'll just have to chuck something at the guitards till they fall in line.

I may keep my 810.........just in case.

If you play a 4-string you are flat out wasting your money to buy Acmes. I have nothing against Acme at all, but there is just zero point.

If I were a 4-string player I would buy a high end neo cab like a berg AE212 or a Genz Neox 212 first.