Acme speaker replacement question

bassix67 · #1 03-23-2011, 08:35 PM

Because I'm a gear dummy and just creased my speakers in my B2 I need to know what would happen if I put different
Speakers then the stock speakers in the cab. Just a sound difference? Crossover problems?

wave rider · #2 03-23-2011, 08:56 PM

I might try a recone first...

=wr=

bassix67 · #3 03-23-2011, 09:12 PM

No offense but I know I can re-cone or just get new drivers from Acme. I just want to know why or why not use other speakers. Is it gonna damage the box, tweeter, mid speaker?? I've been playing for 30 yrs and gigged alot in all kinds of situations and have never creased a speaker. Didn't even know what it was til I started reading about it on talkbass.
B.

wave rider · #4 03-23-2011, 10:30 PM

Most cabinets are designed for specific drivers, and I think the Acme's are proprietary. If you get a good measurement of the cabinet interior volume and port sizing, some of the good folks here can give a more educated idea than me about a substitute driver.

I don't think a substitute driver will hurt the box or other drivers, can't say if they will hurt the crossover.

=wr=

oddio · #5 03-24-2011, 06:58 AM

Andy Lewis has always had a fair policy for the replacement of drivers. It won't cost you an arm and a leg to fix 'em, but you have to ship the old one back. Why not just give him a call (or email).

bassix67 · #6 03-24-2011, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oddio

Andy Lewis has always had a fair policy for the replacement of drivers. It won't cost you an arm and a leg to fix 'em, but you have to ship the old one back. Why not just give him a call (or email).

I've already spoken with Andy about replacement and its cool will probably go that way but, I just want to know what would happen if I put different speakers in the cab? Seems like a lot of people crease those speakers and there maybe a design flaw. I creased mine testing the cab with my new head in my living room not on a gig under stress. 500w amp 4ohm cab and head.

Arjank · #7 03-24-2011, 07:16 AM

Do you have the specs? cab size, port diameter/lenght, impedance, crossover frequency, etc.

We can check what drivers could be candidates for that cab.

zombywoof5050 · #8 03-24-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassix67

I creased mine testing the cab with my new head in my living room not on a gig under stress. 500w amp 4ohm cab and head.

Which amp is it, and how loud did you have it, and were you playing a 5-string?

bassix67 · #9 03-24-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Do you have the specs? cab size, port diameter/lenght, impedance, crossover frequency, etc.

We can check what drivers could be candidates for that cab.

Below is all i know. I'm a gear dummy trying to learn the why and why not's. I've been a plug n play guy for 30yrs.

Model: Acme Low B-2 Series II
Frequency response: +/-3 dB 41Hz to 22 kHz -6 dB at 31 Hz
Power Handling: 350 Watts RMS continuous
300 Watts sine wave @ 30.87 Hz
Sensitivity: 93 dB 1W/1M
Impedance: 4 ohms
Dimensions: 23"H x 15.75"W x 16.5"D
Weight: 50 lbs / 23.2 kg
Port is 11 3/4 inch Long & 3 inch diameter

Crossover freq ? gotta call andy for that unless someone here knows that.

bassix67 · #10 03-24-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zombywoof5050

Which amp is it, and how loud did you have it, and were you playing a 5-string?

Trace LG1000 500w x 2. Had the Master at 3/4 full and input at 1/2
with the deep switch engaged. Hit one note then it started flapping.
Yes it was a 5 string.

Arjank · #11 03-24-2011, 07:56 AM

Ok, the two 10's are housed in a cab of approx 67liters.
The port is tuned to a very low 24hz

Does it really have one port?
Or does it have two ports and seperated enclosures for each driver?

Just googled for a picture, yes two ports.
This will bring the tuning to 34hz. This is still very low, which is why these cabs go low but are on the inefficient side.

There are some candidates, but I'll check that later on.
If you could buy Oberton speakers easily in the US I would recommend the 10B200 that I use in my 2x10cab.
It can handle lots of power without farting out or showing signs of stress. I asked Oberton about selling in the US, they told me that you can buy them directly from the factory.

bassix67 · #12 03-24-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Ok, the two 10's are housed in a cab of approx 67liters.
The port is tuned to a very low 24hz

Does it really have one port?
Or does it have two ports and seperated enclosures for each driver?

Just googled for a picture, yes two ports.
This will bring the tuning to 34hz. This is still very low, which is why these cabs go low but are on the inefficient side.

There are some candidates, but I'll check that later on.
If you could buy Oberton speakers easily in the US I would recommend the 10B200 that I use in my 2x10cab.
It can handle lots of power without farting out or showing signs of stress. I asked Oberton about selling in the US, they told me that you can buy them directly from the factory.

Sorry, yes 2 ports. So basically, the box goes to low for the OEM speakers to handle or the that fact almost any non sub speaker to handle. So you should expect it to crease unless you keep one ear on your gear and the other on the gig right???

Arjank · #13 03-24-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

So basically, the box goes to low for the OEM speakers to handle

Could be, you need something with high xmax combined with low distortion like the Oberton driver I have.
Maybe the Beyma 1040 will do the trick Beyma Speakers - Beyma 10G40 speaker - Beyma 10G40 600 watt 10" speaker for all bass applications. Beyma 10G40 bass speaker and other Beyma 10" speakers here.
I wil do a simulation later on.

froghat · #14 03-24-2011, 08:33 AM

I have two Acme cabs - a Low B2 and a Low B (same as B2 without the mid and tweeter). Both series 2. The previous owner replaced the original drivers with Eminence Legend BP102-8 speakers to get more loudness. They sound fine to me, although I imagine I could blow the drivers if I really cranked the bass.

bassix67 · #15 03-24-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froghat

I have two Acme cabs - a Low B2 and a Low B (same as B2 without the mid and tweeter). Both series 2. The previous owner replaced the original drivers with Eminence Legend BP102-8 speakers to get more loudness. They sound fine to me, although I imagine I could blow the drivers if I really cranked the bass.

Thanks, i've been looking at those. they may have more xmax than the OEM.

Arjank · #16 03-24-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Thanks, i've been looking at those. they may have more xmax than the OEM

Yes they have higher xmax, but I feel the enclosure would be to small for these. They have a low Fs, but Vas is high and the Q is to high for such a small cab to perform well.
I never tried those in real life, you could ask Sundogue. He has build some neat cabs with those.

bassix67 · #17 03-24-2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Yes they have higher xmax, but I feel the enclosure would be to small for these. They have a low Fs, but Vas is high and the Q is to high for such a small cab to perform well.
I never tried those in real life, you could ask Sundogue. He has build some neat cabs with those.

Can you explain "perform well"? Are you talking about sound or tech aspects? Foghat said "they sound good"!

craig.p · #18 03-24-2011, 09:22 AM

There could be several contributing factors to this speaker damage. Aggressive bass settings on the amp and on the bass. Too much volume. No subsonic filter to counter aggressive bass settings. Playing too aggressively up near the neck (vs softly much closer to the bridge) which aggravates cone hop where a subsonic filter isn't present to combat it. Amp defect -- on/off transients or lots of DC offset or who knows. Those are a few of the possible causes. Could be the sum of two or more.

Arjank · #19 03-24-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassix67

Can you explain "perform well"? Are you talking about sound or tech aspects? Foghat said "they sound good"!

With "perform well" I mean how they "fit" in the enclosure.
When I do a simulation of the Eminence BP102 and the Oberton 10B200 in that enclosure The Oberton performs much better in the lowest octave. This is because it's parameter set is better suited for this size enclosure.

greenboy · #20 03-24-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Yes they have higher xmax

I'm relatively certain that's not so. The BP-102 is what the Acme OEM driver is built around, and longer xmax to I think 8mm is part of the change. Unfortunately both drivers share the same xlim, which makes the safety margin for the Acme rather thin.

The issue of actually knowing the crossover design also plays into this. It could be simple; it could be complex.