Acoustic 301/Distortion

quttinirpaaq · #1 04-11-2011, 09:11 PM

Hi all,

I just bought an Acoustic 301 cab and the person I bought it from insisted that it would blow the 18" speaker if I were to use a distortion/fuzz pedal. Something about how bigger speakers aren't meant to handle that sort of thing. Is this true or hogwash?

bongomania · #2 04-11-2011, 09:22 PM

Utter hogwash. Not even a remote basis in fact.

Plantbrain · #3 04-11-2011, 09:25 PM

18 inches of baloney perhaps........

Ric5 · #4 04-11-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

Utter hogwash. Not even a remote basis in fact.

+1

SurferJoe46 · #5 04-11-2011, 09:47 PM

I wouldn't crank the thing up until it distorts though - maybe he was misinformed and the word 'distortion' got misplaced in his memory - but an 18-incher is gonna need a little more more time to get back to null and get ready for the next frequency push from the motor.

Mass counts and as far as I can remember, it was the one crippler of a bigger cone verses a smaller-massed/less overall diameter driver.

I remember playing on 18s in many years past (1960s if my old fart brain's still good), and they could get messy at moderate-high power.

JimmyM · #6 04-11-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I wouldn't crank the thing up until it distorts though - maybe he was misinformed and the word 'distortion' got misplaced in his memory - but an 18-incher is gonna need a little more more time to get back to null and get ready for the next frequency push from the motor.

??? no it won't.

will33 · #7 04-11-2011, 10:55 PM

It has nothing to do with the distortion/effects in terms of sound. There is something to say about laying a bunch of effects in front of an amp in terms of a bunch of harmonic content or just plain putting a big signal in the front of the amp thus meaning making the power amp work harder and put a big signal out the back of the amp. Doesn't have much to do with the brand of amp or the speaker used, it's just the difference between use and abuse.

SurferJoe46 · #8 04-11-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

??? no it won't.

C'mon, James. More mass requires more energy to push/pull the cone and that's what I am talking about.

Given the same parameters - if that's possible - a 18" will fart a lot easier than a 10" and that's just common sense.

But I also know that there is a wave formed that is radiated out from the center of the cone and it is a big factor in speaker distortion, and what might be 'heard' as the speaker not complying with the motion it is required to make to reproduce a frequency.

The whole cone cannot move in total compliance with the driver motor on all the cone surface and to the outer as well as the inner cone area. It takes time to move that cone out on the edges, albeit a small amount of time. .

One cannot expect a larger-massed cone to be as compliant as a smaller and less massive cone in a smaller speaker/driver.

If one turns the power DOWN then the effect is less felt and/or heard - but the propensity of warpage and distortion is there by physical law.

Warpage is the effect of the wave moving to the outer periphery of the cone and then the last or future swells meeting other waves coming from other directions: eg, new ones from the driver-motor or returning from the outer supporting ring when the wave has traveled as far as it can and returns to 'ground zero' so to speak.

I have seen this multiple wave distortion even on solid steel surfaces and the colliding waves create heat and distress the metal itself - why not much more so for a paper or poly-cone?

Metal Matt · #9 04-11-2011, 11:44 PM

I run 4 12's, 4 15's and an 18 and hit them with a ton of fuzz and distortion. They all handle it fine because I'm running them under their rated power handling, getting my volume from speaker area. They all handle it the same, including the 18. I think the only concern would be the age of the speaker...

Open the back and check the speaker for any signs of damage, any tears or anything like that.

Rated for 300 watts @ 4 ohms from what I found on google. Don't exceed that and you should be fine.

will33 · #10 04-11-2011, 11:47 PM

The "motor" ie: coil moving moves at the same rate no matter now big of cone is attached to it.

If you've got a good 18" cone, either low fs (heavy) and built stiff or an asymetrical one where the angle in is more steep closer to the center (and thus physically stonger) and flares out at the edges, if you've got a good cone, you've got a good speaker.

If you've got a cheap speaker where the center could fire and cause a "wave" reverberating out to the edges, then a cheap 10 might sound better than a cheap 18, just because the wave is shorter and doesn't affect the sound so bad, or affects it higher up in the frequency band where it doesn't matter so much. Either way, you're talking about the difference between cheap and cheap.

There's a tradeoff/middle ground in there somewhere that makes a good one-way speaker. That's also the benefit of going 2-way, each designed to make the best of a certain band of frequencies instead of one trying to do it all.

That's about the point where it starts changing from totally technical and starts blending in with "musical", which really can't be quantified but everybody knows it when they hear it.

JimmyM · #11 04-12-2011, 11:25 AM

i'm not as good at explaining stuff as will is, but i've heard bill fm say similar stuff about 18"s as well, and i don't think there's anyone on here who knows how speakers work as well as he does, so i always take his word for stuff like that.

billfitzmaurice · #12 04-12-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quttinirpaaq

Hi all,

I just bought an Acoustic 301 cab and the person I bought it from insisted that it would blow the 18" speaker if I were to use a distortion/fuzz pedal. Something about how bigger speakers aren't meant to handle that sort of thing. Is this true or hogwash?

Hogwash, but distortion through that cab won't sound very good. Distortion is mainly heard in the mids, and that cab is very weak in the mids.

Kano2864212 · #13 04-28-2011, 01:33 AM

I run fuzz through my 301 and it sounds awesome, especially at a distance

Bassmec · #14 04-28-2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Hogwash, but distortion through that cab won't sound very good. Distortion is mainly heard in the mids, and that cab is very weak in the mids.

I think you need a bit more mid and top than I could get out of a 301 stand alone.
Thats why I finally went all active to a 408 Jaco cab with a pair of JBL 2206 and 2445's stuck on top of it.
Now it can be made to sound exactly like buildings falling down with Stafford from "Extreme Noise Terror" abusing it mightily with a stingray set for C sharp tuning and a boss bass OD pedal
into a Mesa studio pre set to purest filth.

Thats proper live bass distortion right there!.

Mr. Foxen · #15 04-28-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Hogwash, but distortion through that cab won't sound very good. Distortion is mainly heard in the mids, and that cab is very weak in the mids.

Distortion through these does a throaty 'grr', rather than an aggressive 'suzz' thing, since the higher mids are attenuated. I guess the short horn means corresponding to the not horn loading very low, it also doesn't roll off as much mids lower down. Kind of like if you put distortion through a tweeter, it sounds awful, you need the cone's roll off to make it sound right, but shifted down some notches to bass territory.