Acoustic B-450 Update

SurferJoe46 · #1 06-27-2010, 10:17 AM

I had a 9-hour gig yesterday - jamming really, and there were two bassists there - another guy and me.

The studio I was at has an older Hartke with a Peavey head - and I think some 15-inchers which I played on last week and the Squire P-clone had bad p'ups. This time I brought my B-450 combo with 210s+horn and the B-600H inside of it.

I put it head-high (3-feet off the floor on top of the Hartke cab) and at that height the 210s could really fracture your eardrums, so we added a 218/4 Ohm cab that was in the back room since I didn't bring any other cabs.

The studio is rather small! ("How small is it? It's so-o-o small that you have to go outside to change your mind)" <rimshot>

A full-on drum battery, some keyboards and four or five guitar amps and some stage angled cabs and my amp and the mixing boards 'n racks that make the whole place look like the navigation deck on the Starship Enterprise really sucks up cubic feet!

Anyway - after a good hour of running very high power in intense heat over 100ºF air temp and lots of LOWs dialed in at 75%, I finally heard the 3rd speed of my cooling fan come on! Not noisy, but you can tell it's running fast!

I backed off the lows a little and it was enough to drop to 2nd gear on the fan and that's where it stayed the rest of the jam.

It would also be nice if the AC was working - which is was NOT - but we couldn't run with the doors open for all the noise. The outside air was over 80ºF so it wouldn't make much of an improvement anyway.

PS: Drummers smell 'peculiarly strong' after two or three hours.

BUT: The B-450 never sounded better and it wasn't really too amazing to me - I expect it to rock - but there was a touring bassist there (I cannot tell his name b/o studio 'conflict of interest' stuff) but he really liked it and said he was gonna look into some of the Acoustic stuff for his personal use, but not necessarily for On-The-Road, since he has roadies for all that and they get good $$ for humping all the big gear for him.

Well - this post is about the clarity and power of the B-450, (besides just how good I felt in a pro-jam!) and I know I couldda brought my B-600H and just a 410, but when I thought about the size of the room, this B-410 was enough in my mind - and it was - but adding the twin 18s was very interesting to me.

Oh - and the fact that I actually heard a third-speed in the cooling fan! That's nice of Acoustic to put that in there.

It is NOT documented on any printed sheets by Acoustic. They show a 'protection circuit' in the flow-charts though.

Just thought you'd like to know (and give me a chance to pop off about a 9-hour jam)

jnewmark · #2 06-27-2010, 12:04 PM

Hmm, I'm a little confused . At the beginning of your post you state that you used a Acoustic 450, which is a combo with 2-10's, and a B600 head. Toward the end of your post, you talk about using a B600 head and a 410 cab .

Also, how can you judge what the actual combo sounded like when you added two 18"s ? ! Granted, it was up by your ears, but I have to think that those 18's added something to the sound. I have been interested in this combo ever since I tried one out at GC. A bit heavy and bulky to move, but it sounded pretty good.

SurferJoe46 · #3 06-27-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Hmm, I'm a little confused . At the beginning of your post you state that you used a Acoustic 450, which is a combo with 2-10's, and a B600 head. Toward the end of your post, you talk about using a B600 head and a 410 cab .

Also, how can you judge what the actual combo sounded like when you added two 18"s ? ! Granted, it was up by your ears, but I have to think that those 18's added something to the sound. I have been interested in this combo ever since I tried one out at GC. A bit heavy and bulky to move, but it sounded pretty good.

The B-450 has the B-600 head in it.

I also have a B-600H and that I can use with my B-810, B-410 or the B-115 or pretty much any combination of them.

Last night it was the B-450 all the way and I jacked in the 2-18s to it at the same time. The 18s added a lot of chocolate to the lower end, and counter to acoustic engineers, it works quite well. I would have never thought a pair or even a single 18 would be great, but they were. I could fart them though, so I kept them EQ'd out to keep them out of cone/motor smashing range.

The B-600 amp can go down to 2 Ohms, so I was within limits there. I wasn't max'd out for power in this setting - but I was close.

Sorry to confuse - I just think everyone knows what I had that night and I guess I made it a little muddy.

Yeah - putting the 2-10s that high kept me satisfied for volume and then adding the 18s was a real kick. I normally put the B-450 (210s) on top of my B-115 and that works great.

jnewmark · #4 06-27-2010, 12:24 PM

Do you ever use the 450 by itself, without additional cabs? I'm pretty much a one cab guy, just wondering what this combo can do on it's own.

SurferJoe46 · #5 06-27-2010, 12:40 PM

The B-450 is a smoker! It will flap your socks and the power is really great.

Distortion-wise it is clean and can comply with the lows and highs all by itself.

Dispersion is great and non-zoned or channeled in just one direction r it seems to me, so you don't make the ears bleed on people right in front of you and yet the whole audience can hear you pretty evenly.

Weight wise - it's heavy - but I view that as a plus since it has no cab rattle, nor will it dance off the stage either on it's own accord. Where you put it - it will stay!

2 10s push a lot of air, and you will only be running about 375 Watts max in the cab combo alone, but you'll be happily in bass bliss.

If I click the Horn ON, it gets a great snap/pop to it, although I tend to leave it OFF for most everything I play.

You can bounce a floor pretty good with it all by itself.

I'm old school and think Bass amps/combos are the only thing that should be pushing the bass. PAs are not the way I go and I don't play through them for reasons that are my own, although the Acoustic B-450/B-600H has a DI-Out for just that purpose.

hinkus · #6 05-23-2011, 09:09 PM

I'm on the cusp of buying the B450 and combining it with the 115 cab. Played on it and it sounds pretty sick. I don't like the hiss at high gain/volume, even with the horn off, but I suppose a noise gate would fix that? So, I didn't realize the 450 has the 600H in it. That explains the 600 total output. So why buy the 600 head? I'm new to the specs of all of this (ohms, watts, RMS...etc) and I'm a little overwhelmed. What I would like to know simply is two things, if you could help:

1. Combining the 450 and 115 will actually push 600 total watts?

2. Is it possible to add another 210 or 410 to this? Or can you only combine the 450 with either a 410 or 115, but not both? If not, why would it have 2 speaker outputs?

SurferJoe46 · #7 05-23-2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hinkus

I'm on the cusp of buying the B450 and combining it with the 115 cab. Played on it and it sounds pretty sick. I don't like the hiss at high gain/volume, even with the horn off, but I suppose a noise gate would fix that? So, I didn't realize the 450 has the 600H in it. That explains the 600 total output. So why buy the 600 head? I'm new to the specs of all of this (ohms, watts, RMS...etc) and I'm a little overwhelmed. What I would like to know simply is two things, if you could help:

1. Combining the 450 and 115 will actually push 600 total watts?

2. Is it possible to add another 210 or 410 to this? Or can you only combine the 450 with either a 410 or 115, but not both? If not, why would it have 2 speaker outputs?

Figure about 325Watts on the B-450 alone.

With a B-anything under it, you'll get to about 425Watts or so, and once you get to 2Ω load with two 8Ω cabs as extensions, you'll get to max Wattage for this unit.

The B-450 will power two extension cabs - be they 115s, 410s or a combination of the two.

I have run a B-810 too with the B-450.

I think you'll like a B-410 under the B-450 a little better as when the B-115 is pushed it will fart before the 210s in the B-450 cab.

The B-115 sounds good until you get it up pretty high and that's where the problem might be for you.

I have run a triple stack of the B-450 on top of two B-410s. Killer!

All together you'll have either a 610 or a 1010 setup that way.

To this date I have not tried to put the B-450 on top of the B-810. The top of the 810 is kinda shallow and there's not a lot of surface or support for it to balance there.

And you may not have the Notch Filter running at the best settings - or even at all!

If you want to run a double latching pedal on this unit, there's ways to get it to go into Standby and turn the Notch Filter ON/OFF from a pedal.

I can supply some pixs of that setup if you like.

hinkus · #8 05-23-2011, 09:50 PM

My end game is to have:

450combo
410 cab
115 cab
Total 610/115 setup.
+
A simple bass distortion pedal
+
Any noise cancelling filter (if necessary)

As for the suggestion of the 410 over the 115, I'll give it more thought. I'm just looking for overall tonal range and flexibility for the start up. I can add more later! I also want to punish people's chests with sound they can FEEL...if possible.

I don't even know what a notch filter is...like I said I'm new

but I assume it has something to do with the hiss? Haven't looked into it yet.

I'd like to see the setup you're talking about...sure. Thanks by the way for the help. I've been on the fence about whether to get this Acoustic setup or start small on the Ampeg end with the PF500 with either a 210 or 410 (price point!)

SurferJoe46 · #9 05-23-2011, 10:07 PM

For punishment, nothing beats more drivers and ones that are capable of following the other drivers in your setup.

The B-115 will suck as much power as a B-410, but it is not as capable as the B-410.

I kept my B-115 for my B-600H when I want to travel lighter.

Get an MXR M80 DI + Bass Distortion and with the B-450 and another B-410 you'll kill the audience.

This is my practice and ,local gig gear:::

You have a notch filter built into the B-450. All you have to do is get the right pedal to access it from a stomp like you can with the STANDBY ability.

hinkus · #10 05-23-2011, 11:26 PM

Very nice stuff

Yeah, you've got the exact Amp setup (minus the pedals) I want.

I've read that 15s provide the low end "punch", hence the only reason I'd want it, whereas the 10s are more versatile. I'll take your advice into consideration. Thanks again.

SurferJoe46 · #11 05-24-2011, 08:34 AM

It's not true that the 'punch' is exclusive to a 15.

Both cabs can work the same freqs, and although the 15 looks beefier, it is not as compliant as the 10s can be - larger mass and all, although some say that they feel the lows better in a 15.

I have mixed emotions about it, since what the 15 is supposed to be more capable of in the super low ranges, isn't really the whole technical truth - but it may feel and sound good to you up to a point.

Originally I too thought this way and although the 15 paired with the 210s in the B-450 combo does sound nice - once you crank it up you'll find that the 15 hogs all the Wattage and just gets 'rubbery-sounding' - that's the best way I can describe it.

The 10s will still have more to give but the 15 is max'd out so you never get to the power that you'll feel it should have. There's more of a technical discussion that can (and prolly will) be talked about - but I like the 115/210 setup for lower volume situations.

If I had it to do over, I'd get the B-600H and a pair of B-410 cabs first.

My second choice would be a B-450 and a B-410 for a 610 setup.

This is the pedal I finally used...............

..............but it needs circuit modifications to make it work correctly. The reason I picked on this one is that it doesn't have indicator lights on it, as the lights mess up the electronic circuit in the amp by loading the circuit down and they won't switch correctly.

hinkus · #12 05-24-2011, 12:25 PM

What I'm going for right now is a good starter setup that can be expanded upon, as well as provide enough power to combat my LOUD drummer, and two 100w half-stack guitarists who are loud as well, and intend to expand their setups as well. We're mainly going to record stuff, but we will play local shows too. In the event of a house show, outside venue, or no PA setting, I want to hold my own.

Yeah, I'm pretty much sold on the B450 with 410 cab for starters. I may want to add on a 1x15 if I feel I need to. Would this still have the drowned out "rubbery" feel even with 6x10s to offset the 115? And could I add another 410, or would that just be silly to have 10x10?

In fact, the 450 would suffice on it's own in the studio, I'd think. I'm just looking out for future growth too and live show aspect.

I will be playing through an Ibanez SG400 4-string...sorry no pics at the moment.

SurferJoe46 · #13 05-24-2011, 07:42 PM

I've run 1010s, 610s including the B-450 and they sound monstrous.

Even with a B-450H, a B-410 and then adding a B-115 - the 115 is going to be at a deficit.

The 115 is 8Ω like the 410s are, but with one driver, it will be overdriven if you crank it up.

If you hammer the 115 too much, it will die on you. If you can hear it when it gets in distress, it'll always be at a lower volume setting than the 410s are capable of before they fart.

I ran the B-450 for a couple of months by itself, and as powerful as it was, I still wanted more and added more cabs.

It works well in smaller clubs where the power isn't lost in a large outdoor area. But when you gotta move air, you need more drivers that are closer matched than tossing a 115 in there.

bring the noise · #14 05-24-2011, 08:09 PM

Have any idea how the b600 and 810 sound.

SurferJoe46 · #15 05-24-2011, 08:52 PM

Oh yeah!

It's very powerful and very good mid-range with extremely good resolution for the lows or even a B-5er bass.

There is a piezzo horn that I mostly leave off - but if you want to get that modern sound, it's OK.

I think the whole Acoustic line is more old school though - which is exactly what I like.

It is at home in Electric Blues, Cajon, Surf, Oldie Rock, Motown, CW, but I know another player who goes into Radio Head and INXS-type stuff that it works for him too.

I play a little Norteno and Tex-Mex and even Klezmer once in a while and have a ball doing it.

I'm a groove player and don't got into too many solos.

bring the noise · #16 05-24-2011, 10:43 PM

I have a little acoustic 260 and really dig it.

SurferJoe46 · #17 05-24-2011, 10:52 PM

Yeah - I noodled on one of these at GC a while back. Nice sound and power

Nick901 · #18 05-25-2011, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

This is my practice and ,local gig gear:::

What make is the bass on the extreme left?

SurferJoe46 · #19 05-25-2011, 08:32 AM

My extreme left?

It's just a common Fender Deluxe Jazz with an active circuit.

If you mean the other left, that's an Ibanez SR500, also with an active inside it.

Nick901 · #20 05-25-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

My extreme left?

It's just a common Fender Deluxe Jazz with an active circuit.

If you mean the other left, that's an Ibanez SR500, also with an active inside it.

I was referring to the Fender. I have a bass that looks just like it but was made by David Certain. He makes a version similar to an early '70's Jazz called an Elita.