Adding a 210 with a 410

[woody357]

I’m looking to add a 210 (8 ohm)to my 410 (4 ohm) setup, and I understand that it will give me more volume, but that is not what I really looking for. What I want to know is if I add this second cabinet, but play at the same volume, will I get added punch and presence, and low end?

[KJung]

Only if the volume you are currently playing at results in either your amp to hit limiting or your cabinet to start to compress due to the drivers running out of 'mechanical steam'. Yes, there is a general coupling impact of adding another cab which will, all other things being equal (which they never are) add a touch more low end.

However, in absolute terms to your absolute question... no, it won't. Again, if you are playing VERY loud, and have an amp that doesn't put out a ton of power (i.e., less than 300 watts into 4ohm or something), and/or your 410 is not of the highest qualitya and design, then adding a 210 and staying at the same volume might open things up a bit.

[BigOldHarry]

eh

I have run this arrangement with both cabs at 8 ohms and it sounded GREAT.

Better make sure your amp can handle less than 4 ohms before you try it!

[2-Sticks]

Adding a second cab as you stated (as long as the head is capable of the load), will move more air than the single cab. This should result in a percieved increase in punch, and volume.

However if the cabs have different drivers, or are made by different manafacturers, this may not actually be the case. I have found mixing cabs can have good results, and equally poor results.

Best advice is try it and see how it sounds to you, because thats all that really matters.

[Spinal Tapper]

combining 8ohm & 4ohm could mess up ur rig. make sure u can handle 2.6777777 Ohms or whatever that equates to

[woody357]

Here is the set up I have a Eden Wt550 head(handles a 2ohm load) that I use with a Epifani PS410 (4ohm). I want to add a PS210 (8ohm). I play smooth jazz, and r&b. I have never pushed this amp of my GK800 to the half way point. I really don’t play that loud, I get good punch, and low end, I don’t have a problem cutting threw the mix as it stands right now. I would like to get a little extra without turning up.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by woody357

Here is the set up I have a Eden Wt550 head that I use with a Epifani PS410 (4ohm). I want to add a PS210 (8ohm). I play smooth jazz, and r&b. I have never pushed this amp of my GK800 to the half way point. I really don’t play that loud, I get good punch, and low end, I don’t have a problem cutting threw the mix as it stands right now. I would like to get a little extra without turning up.

You *need* to determine what the minimum load this amp will take - - look at the back of the head, it should say right there...

If it says "2 ohm minimum load" or there's an impedance switch so you can set it to 2 ohms, then you are in business. If it says "4 ohm minimum", then you can only safely run that 4x10, *period*.

that is why I only buy 8 ohm cabs.

[Spinal Tapper]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

You *need* to determine what the minimum load this amp will take - - look at the back of the head, it should say right there...

If it says "2 ohm minimum load" or there's an impedance switch so you can set it to 2 ohms, then you are in business. If it says "4 ohm minimum", then you can only safely run that 4x10, *period*.

that is why I only buy 8 ohm cabs.

Totally agree...but wouldn't it only be running a 2 ohm load if he's using TWO 4 ohm cabs? Doesn't 4+8ohm cabs make it some weird load rating???

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Spinal Tapper

Totally agree...but wouldn't it only be running a 2 ohm load if he's using TWO 4 ohm cabs? Doesn't 4+8ohm cabs make it some weird load rating???

2.67, like you said, which is higher than 2.

[1n3]

Originally Posted by woody357

Here is the set up I have a Eden Wt550 head(handles a 2ohm load) that I use with a Epifani PS410 (4ohm). I want to add a PS210 (8ohm). I play smooth jazz, and r&b. I have never pushed this amp of my GK800 to the half way point. I really don’t play that loud, I get good punch, and low end, I don’t have a problem cutting threw the mix as it stands right now. I would like to get a little extra without turning up.

I see no problems here. Your head is rated for a 2 ohm load, your speakers will (I assume) match, and each driver will see 1/6 of total power. You're doing everything right.

As you've noted, speaker sensitivity will increase, but that apparently is not what you're after. Low-frequency coupling should also improve, by virtue of the increased speaker area. So that could all qualify as "a little extra", but I can't say if it'd be worth the expense and extra schlepping.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by Spinal Tapper

Totally agree...but wouldn't it only be running a 2 ohm load if he's using TWO 4 ohm cabs? Doesn't 4+8ohm cabs make it some weird load rating???

*sigh*

We have stickies for this stuff, folks.

I'm not going to bother doing the math here... Suffice to say, if he currently has a 4 ohm cab, he is at that moment at the limit of what his amp can safely run. Adding another cab - ANY other cab, puts his amp at risk. So he puts an 8 ohm cab on - it's now at risk, period. Now, reading above, it seems that he has determined that the amp can handle a 2 ohm load - so he's good to go. He may not like how it sounds, he may like it a lot - but the amp will be okay. Another head? Maybe not.

[woody357]

I guess my question was a little odd. Most people on these sites add cabinets to be louder, and that isn’t my desire, as far as if my head can handle the load, that seems to be more of a concern than my question. Thanks for all the help though.

[greenboy]

Louder and what you want are essentially the same anyway. It gives you more potential to shape your tone with EQ, for one thing.

[woody357]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Louder and what you want are essentially the same anyway. It gives you more potential to shape your tone with EQ, for one thing.

I disagree! IMHO you can get what I am after without being louder.

[greenboy]

Disagree all you want. But you would just be dicing words. I didn't say it was the ONLY way, I just said it was one way.

And if you already know the answer why are you posting a thread about it? Seems like you always have these kind of threads.

[greenboy]

Maybe you don't get it: having more broadband sensitivity due to coupling gives you greater tonal options, because you are less likely to run out of headroom.

[woody357]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Disagree all you want. But you would just be dicing words. I didn't say it was the ONLY way, I just said it was one way.

And if you already know the answer why are you posting a thread about it? Seems like you always have these kind of threads.

I do know you can get what I am after without being louder, I just don't know if the cabinet config I am looking at will give it to me.

I am glad to see you are a fan, and follow my threads, thank you.

[Son of Bovril]

you may be able to get more punch by just running the head louder into the 210 cab by itself. If you are not having volume issues though, it seems silly to add an extra cab. but the 210 by itself probably won't give you the low end you are looking for if a 410 isn't already doing so. maybe you just need a different 410?

[KJung]

Again, the question is a bit unanswerable. If you want more punch, which typically means more midrange, and you are not driving your current 410 cab or amp to the edge, adding another similar cab is not a very efficient way to get where you want to go.

If the OP said that his rig was running out of gas, or that he wanted to be louder, that is one thing... but adding a 210 to significantly increase mid punch makes little sense to me.

I guess one way to look at it is that the top 210's will be closer to the OP's ears, and he will get the 'impression' of more mid punch, but that isn't the same thing.

EQ, a change of technic, or finding a single cab that fits your tone goals would be the solution of choice for me. IMO there

That being said, running an 4ohm 410 and an 8ohm 210 with a head that is 2ohm capable is a wonderful thing... a modular 610, and you basically have given your self three rigs (assuming you have a solid state head that can handle the 2.67 ohm nominal impedance).... an 8ohm 210 at the lowest wattage for small gigs, a 4ohm 410 for most gigs at a higher wattage, and a 2.67ohm 610 for the big wumpin'... with each driver in all combinations seeing pretty much the same power in all three situations.

So, great idea in general, but possibly not to get the result I understand you are trying to achieve. IMO!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Maybe you don't get it: having more broadband sensitivity due to coupling gives you greater tonal options, because you are less likely to run out of headroom.

If he is running out of headroom, I would agree. It doesn't sound like it from his original post.