Adding a 2nd Cab- 1x15 or 4x10?? Need Advice

[Thejamesjordan]

Hi Guys,

I have an Eden WT1000 power amp that has 2x 450 watt channels at 4 Ohms. I am currently running it mono into a 600 watt Aguilar 2x 12 cab. Recently, I am playing bigger rooms, and I need more volume. Time to take advantage of the 2nd channel.

I want something with real low end. I am hearing for more volume it is more beneficial to "push more air", meaning 40" (4x10) of speaker space vs. 15" (1x15) of speaker space would help me achieve my goal. I have always thought that the size of the speaker itself was one of the most important parts to a good low end.

Can someone provide me some guidance and recommendations?

Thanks,

[christw]

You already found out what you need to know. The 4x10 will add more capacity for volume to your rig than a single 15 will. A single 15 is closer to a 2x10 than a 4x10. I know that statement has a high degree of variability, but it's an approximation.

[GrowlerBox]

If you like your Aguilar 212, you won't go wrong by getting a second one. Mixing speaker sizes can work, but it's unpredictable. Size of the speaker is the least important part of a good low end -- other elements of the speaker design and the box in which they're housed are infinitely more important. Audition a few cabs with an open mind regarding speaker size, and you'll go far.

Happy hunting

[Thejamesjordan]

Hi ChristW,

Thanks for the feedback. I have heard some 4x 10s that deliver kick ass low end. Any recommendations on what I should look for to find such a jewel? Also, what wattage would recommend (considering each channel is 450 Watts)?

Thanks,

[christw]

I agree with Growler on the point that speaker size is one of the least important elements. Mixing cab makes and models can be unpredictable too.

I would make sure your new cab is about similarly rated to the Aguilar (600+w). Some cab manufacturers rate their cabs max RMS at the amount it takes to melt the voice coil, not the maximum effective amount the speakers can handle before hitting their xmax (farting out) so just make sure that you don't grab a 450w rated 210 or something. It probably won't end too well.

I don't have tons of cab experience to be honest. I do absolutely love Genz Benz cabs with my 610 XB2 being one of my favorites. I haven't got my hands on their Uber cabs but I can image they'd sound huge too. On the cheap side, I had a Kustom Groove Bass 410 that could eat my 810 alive in low end. The cabs can be had for pennies these days and come with USA Eminence drivers that can really soak up the power. 400 watts rattled my parents house to the point where stuff was falling off of shelves.

Is another Aguilar 2x12 out of the picture? Why not double the goodness?

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm not a tech or an engineer. I've just picked up a lot from this forum over the past year or two.

[impactwrench]

get another of the same cab (2x12). As was stated before, mixing and matching is a crapshoot.

plus youre going about the cone measurements wrong. a 4x10 cab is not 40" of speakers. Its area, not length, that youre describing. pi*r^2

4x10 = pi x 5^2 x 4 speakers =314 sq in
2x12 = pi x 6^2 x 2 speakers =226 sq in
1x15 = pi x 7.5^2 x 1 speak =177 sq in

speaker area is much more important than speaker length. but equally or more important than area is XMAX or how far in and out the speaker can move before farting out. area x xmax would give you the best estimate of how much air you can move.

[Thejamesjordan]

Awesome info, thank you. Keep it coming!

I have considered doubling the 2x12s. I like the cab a lot, but not sure I LOVE it haha.

I hear you that it is a crap shoot for sure. But it sounds like if I were going to roll the dice, the 4x 10 would be the more recommended option over a single speaker?

Now the magical question, who has the most cost effective, quality 4x10 with great low end (Maybe I should start a new thread for that)?

Thanks,

[slaps76]

I'd get another 2x12.

Or, if you're really looking for volume, you could sell it and get an 8x10?

[christw]

Originally Posted by Thejamesjordan

Awesome info, thank you. Keep it coming!

I have considered doubling the 2x12s. I like the cab a lot, but not sure I LOVE it haha.

I hear you that it is a crap shoot for sure. But it sounds like if I were going to roll the dice, the 4x 10 would be the more recommended option over a single speaker?

Now the magical question, who has the most cost effective, quality 4x10 with great low end (Maybe I should start a new thread for that)?

Thanks,

Start by refining what you're asking for. Define low end. Pants flapping booming bass? Punchy "old school" (sealed 810) tone? A clear representation of your bass's tone? Maybe give us an artist or a song for an example of what you want.

I'd certainly suggest a 410 over a 115 but that's me. The boxes tend to be similar in size (+/- a couple inches in any direction) so it makes sense to me to go with the louder of the two one capable of producing more volume before farting.

[Thejamesjordan]

ChristW,
Most of the 8x10s that I have played out of have been pretty close to what I'm looking for. Unfortunately due to portability issues (having to lug it up from the basement through a narrow staircase every gig), I can't do it.

But yes, punchy old school with a booming low end lol. Not sure if that helps. I would like a mix of Duff McKagan and Jason Newsted (with a little less trebly gain).

I am playing covers so it needs to be booming enough to get girls dancing haha.

[christw]

Originally Posted by Thejamesjordan

ChristW,
Most of the 8x10s that I have played out of have been pretty close to what I'm looking for. Unfortunately due to portability issues (having to lug it up from the basement through a narrow staircase every gig), I can't do it.

But yes, punchy old school with a booming low end lol. Not sure if that helps. I would like a mix of Duff McKagan and Jason Newsted (with a little less trebly gain).

I am playing covers so it needs to be booming enough to get girls dancing haha.

So do you use a scooped EQ/tone?

If you're talking Ampeg 810, they don't do booming low end as much as they do effective low mids. If the 810E is what you're striving for, how about two Ampeg SVT410HE cabinets? They're pretty close (if not the same as?) half of an 810E.

Oh, for what it's worth, I much prefer dragging an 810 up stairs or carrying one with a band mate than to dead lift a 410 or 212 by myself. (This is relevant to my drummer's basement which has a 90 degree turn on a 4x4' landing)

[Zooberwerx]

Man, a second 2 X 12 would look so flippin' cool! When you add the second cab for volume, it may very well turn out you have all the low-end support you thought you were missing.

Riis

[Thejamesjordan]

True.. it's so hard to test the whole rig without bringing a cab home....

Anyone else run a dual cab setup with a 2x 12 cab?

[impactwrench]

I was running a 2x10 and a 1x12 until I blew the 1x12. The cab with less speakers is the weak link if the cabs are the same ohmage. So if you ran a 1x15 with your 212 the 1x15 would be the weak link if you run them both full range. IF you get a 4x10 teh 212 becomes the weak link. I actually think you might do best to get a 2x10 with the same xmax speakers as the 2x12 if you can, rather than a 2x12.

I thought my rig sounded pretty good with the mismatch, and maybe it did, but the 210 cab was always louder. I always thought I wanted 8 ohm cabs so I could always use 2 if needed. Well once I blew the 112 and started reading a ton about cabs on TB, I'm now waiting on a 4 ohm Avatar TB153 to play solo at gigs. Basically the 15 is a subwoofer, the 6 is a mid range, and the tweeter handles the snap pop. You dont get that running 2 unequal cabs full range. If someone started building amps with built in crossovers designed or switchable for mismatching cabs, you could do it more predictably. But for now we rely on crossovers in the cab.