ADDING LOW END TO AMPEG 410: ADD ANOTHER 410 OR ADD GK NEO 212?

bobby-haines · #1 01-30-2011, 12:36 PM

As most rock bass players have experienced, I play with a very talented and very loud lead guitarist. I don't want to compete with him on volume, but I do want to maximize the low end depth/presence my rig is capable of. Right now, I'm using an Ampeg SVT 3 Pro (275 watts @ 8 ohms) and an Ampeg SVT 410HE (8 ohms). The tone is great, the mid-range is strong and overall almost gives me the presence I feel the band needs from the bass. I've been reading several threads about the pro's and cons of various cabinets that could be added to the 410 in order to get more bottom end presence. One option is to add another 410, which essentially would give me 8 10" speakers driven by 475 watts @ 4 ohms. The other best option is to add a 2x12 cab. Ive got my eye on a Galien Kruger 212 Neo (8 ohm cab) which, I believe might add more bottom end than simply adding another 410. Any thoughts on the right way to go?

CharlieC · #2 01-30-2011, 12:45 PM

There are dozens and dozens of these type threads on TalkBass and the same answer always dominates:

2 of the same cab simply sound better than 1 and something else

IMHO Just get yourself another SVT-410HE and be happy, it's a great cabinet and they are readily available on the used market

Cheers!

RickenBoogie · #3 01-30-2011, 06:23 PM

+1 adding an identical matching cab is ALWAYS the best choice. You gain power, volume, AND low end. Anything else is just a gamble.

bobby-haines · #4 01-30-2011, 06:30 PM

. . . appreciate the response. Yes, I have seen some of the other threads on this topic - a just wanted to make sure adding the 4x10 was the right way to go. It makes sense to use the matching cab. There are plenty of them available used in the Boston area. One of these days I'll figure out the right forum to post on! Thanks for your help, B.

allexcosta · #5 01-30-2011, 06:39 PM

Step 1 - Sell ampeg 410
Step 2 - Buy Bergantino AE212

You'll have more sound, less weight/space, more money in your pocket...

Or just get an HS410 and be amazed...

kosmicwizard · #6 01-30-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Step 1 - Sell ampeg 410
Step 2 - Buy Bergantino AE212

You'll have more sound, less weight/space, more money in your pocket...

Or just get an HS410 and be amazed...

IMHO allex is more right than the other posters ... Bergs will kill the 410HE, adding another 410HE will not get you more bottom, the cab only goes down to 60Hz (-3dB) you need to get your 3PRO running at 4 Ohms to get volume out of it. If I wanted to stay with Ampeg I would add a 1x15E without question. Cheers.

AwkwardLoudness · #7 01-31-2011, 06:13 AM

For low end frequencies and efficiency, there are better choices than an Ampeg 410HE. I suggest selling that and getting 1 or 2 other cabs with more low end and higher efficiency (louder). Bergantino, Mesa Powerhouse 8x10, Schroeder 412 Neo, Genz Benz Uber 8x10, etc.

However, adding another 410HE would be an improvement.

DwaynieAD · #8 01-31-2011, 06:18 AM

a 410 moves more air than a 1x15 or a 2x12. generally speaking anyway.

plus it just looks more pro when they match.

i've said it a hundred times but i'll say it once more

People listen with there eyes, matching cabs, matching brands and you automatically sound good to 80% of the joe blows and susie q's in the audience

SwamiRob · #9 01-31-2011, 06:35 AM

Well with matching cabs there's more to it then that.

BagelBruin · #10 01-31-2011, 07:04 AM

This is giving me GAS for another Avatar NEO 4x10 to match my existing. Looks like I am buying a trailer too.

allexcosta · #11 01-31-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

a 410 moves more air than a 1x15 or a 2x12. generally speaking anyway.

Yes, generally speaking...

A Bergantino HT115 sounds much fuller than an Ampeg 410.
An HT212 will make an Ampeg 410 sound like a toy...

kosmicwizard · #12 01-31-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Yes, generally speaking...

A Bergantino HT115 sounds much fuller than an Ampeg 410.
An HT212 will make an Ampeg 410 sound like a toy...

The 410HE (high end) is designed to only go down to 60 Hz (-3 dB) it is NOT a full range bass cabinet, add a 1x15E to do that. Or get a 4 Ohm 410HLF (high-low frequency) which will stand on it's own against a lot of other stuff, if you like the sound of ported 410's. Cheers.

RickenBoogie · #13 01-31-2011, 05:47 PM

The 410he IS a full range cab, as are most ALL commercially produced bass cabs. How deep it'll go is another story altogether. Yes, the 410he won't go as low as a 410hlf, and yes, the Berg's are better cabs, (subjective), but no, adding a 15 to a 410 will NOT add more lows by itself. Overall, because you're using 2 cabs instead of 1, AND getting the amp to open up more at 4 ohms, you WILL have more low end by adding ANY 2nd cab. 2 410he's is essentially the same as an 810e, which can roar.

SwamiRob · #14 01-31-2011, 05:57 PM

Depends what kinda deep or bassy your after too, if you push 100-200Hz on a decent rig it'll give you a fair punch, won't be an earthquake of a vibration but the mid and high bass is where the punch is, the really low stuff is just a nice bit of rumbling depth behind your playing if that's what your into. A mountain of mid bass is gonna sound alot deeper then a bit of sub bass either way, with the extra sensitivity of having 2 cabs you can easily just cut some highs and mids and then you'll have plenty of extra bass, it just won't be any lower then what was there in the first place.

bobby-haines · #15 02-01-2011, 09:47 AM

Thanks to all. I went with another 410HE because I believe RickenBoogie is exactly right. The Ampeg SVT 3 Pro and the two 410HE cabs is my rehearsal/practice rig. And as far as other cabs go, my performance rig is an Eden WT550, a Demeter preamp, a dbx compressor, and two Accugroove neo cabs (112 and 110) stacked on a Ampeg BX115. It kills - absolutely no complaints here or disagreements with those recommending Berg's or other better cabs. The Accugrooves are awesome and light weight. The only backbreaking component I have left is the Ampeg BXT-115 HL4 and I gotta have it for the bigger shows. B.

Mvaladao · #16 02-01-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

The 410he IS a full range cab, as are most ALL commercially produced bass cabs. How deep it'll go is another story altogether. Yes, the 410he won't go as low as a 410hlf, and yes, the Berg's are better cabs, (subjective), but no, adding a 15 to a 410 will NOT add more lows by itself. Overall, because you're using 2 cabs instead of 1, AND getting the amp to open up more at 4 ohms, you WILL have more low end by adding ANY 2nd cab. 2 410he's is essentially the same as an 810e, which can roar.

So I have a similar issue. I have the SVT 450h head with a matching 410 cab. But it's not loud enough and I want more bass out of it. It sounds great, but that extra bass sound would really be nice over the crunchy sound of the cab.
Plus I too don't wan to battle my guitar player, I want to be a different sound. Not a louder sound.
So I was suggested to get a 1x15 for it to take the bottom end... But your saying get two 4-10's, and tune one really bassy, and the other one for highs?
I'm new to the bigger amps also... Sorry for the rhetorical question ?

bobby-haines · #17 02-01-2011, 04:13 PM

I went with CharlieC and RickenBoogie's advice, and I'm very satisifed with the result. Then again, I'm using the SVT 3 Pro and the two 410HE cabs for practice/rehearsal in a studio setting, so this is exactly what I was looking for. More bass presence without fighting the lead guitarist, and I'm taking more advantage of the 450 watts at 4 ohms than the the 275w at 8 ohms. However, as I said in my last post, I have a much different rig for live work, which was set up because it is a much, much lighter weight set up, with one exception. The speaker set up consists of two Accugroove neo cabs (a 110 and a 112) plus an Ampeg BXT-115 HL4 (no longer in production) - the BXT-115 HL4 is a cast iron tank and weighs a ton but it delivers full tone outdoors and in big rooms). The three cabs together are powered by an Eden WT-550 with 750 watts at 2 ohms. The new neo cabs really deliver on lightness and tone, but that 15" speaker cab made the difference. I am amazed at what 37" of speaker can do when powered properly, in terms of tone and presence.

Mvaladao · #18 02-01-2011, 04:36 PM

That sounds good. I'll probably have to up the anty, I'm still searching... I don't want to just jump on another cab set up like the last one haha...
Thanks

GolfGuy · #19 02-01-2011, 04:44 PM

If I was you I would go with Aguilar 4-12's bottom...or buy 2-Aguilar 2-12's @ 8ohms. That way you can use one or both if needed.

kosmicwizard · #20 02-28-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

The 410he IS a full range cab, as are most ALL commercially produced bass cabs. How deep it'll go is another story altogether. Yes, the 410he won't go as low as a 410hlf, and yes, the Berg's are better cabs, (subjective), but no, adding a 15 to a 410 will NOT add more lows by itself. Overall, because you're using 2 cabs instead of 1, AND getting the amp to open up more at 4 ohms, you WILL have more low end by adding ANY 2nd cab. 2 410he's is essentially the same as an 810e, which can roar.

2 410he is not the same as a 810E ... The he's have tweeters and are ported, not sealed infinite baffled cabs. Cheers.