Admittedly Unfair B18N vs. Micro SVT Comparison

officespace2 · #1 06-04-2011, 04:36 AM

Confession:

I became OBSESSED with the new MicroSVT rigs after playing through one at the local music store. It sounded cool with a lot of power for its size and I thought, "Man... this is the best small amp I've ever heard". So I bought it! And loved it! Until....

This morning, I set it up next to my newly acquired '66 B18N. I set the volumes and tone knobs on each to be in the same ball park, and gave them the good ol' A/B test.

First, the Micro SVT:
Sounded punchy, bright, full, and had that wonderful SVT-esque growl I love. It was everything I had remembered and was loud as hell for its size.

Then the B18N:
Hold up. Stop the show. GAME OVER!!!! The difference was night and day. I had thought the Micro SVT was the Bee's Knees until I heard it next to a REAL tube amp. The B18 DEFINED warmth, punch, and growl.

After the test, I felt a bit ashamed of myself for all the excitement over the Micro SVT. Had someone asked me a week ago, "How does the MicroSVT" stack up to a vintage tube amp, I would have probably said something like "It will get you about 95% of the tonal goodness of an SVT." Now... Well, the answer is obvious....There is no comparison. It's like comparing apples to a freshly baked apple pie topped with three think scoops of newly churned velvety ice-cream drizzled with sweet lines of caramel and finished with densely saturated granules of sugar and cinnamon.

In sum... I've embarrassed myself with all this fanaticism about a new miniature toy.

wagdog · #2 06-04-2011, 06:45 AM

Don't feel bad, you're not alone. I'm curious to see if these new micro amps hold up to the test of time. Will people still be playing these models in 20 years time as classics or will they simply become the future Standells (forgotten and discarded)?

ShowKing · #3 06-04-2011, 06:49 AM

have you tried the micro svt with 2x 210AV cabs?
i find it makes a huge difference! big low end!

staindbass · #4 06-04-2011, 06:50 AM

did you do a double blind test ? lol . honestly you would need a 31 band analyzer and run pink noise thru both amps and adjust them so they are nearly exact to get a good comparison. did you play both amps through the same speaker? that would make a huge difference.

JimmyM · #5 06-04-2011, 12:59 PM

So let me get this straight...you're saying a classic tube amp that pretty much defined great bass tone in the 60's and 70's sounds better than a Micro VR? You don't say!

I'll tell you though...I recently did a gig where I did one set through my Micro VR and my 73 810, and another through my 69 SVT and the same cab, and while the SVT (naturally) had a sound that felt weightier and a little bigger tonally, I could cop very similar tones by adjusting the EQ to match the SVT EQ I use. So my conclusion is yes, it's not quite as good as an all-tube amp, but it's a lot closer than you may think it is. What do you want for $250?

officespace2 · #6 06-04-2011, 04:12 PM

Don't get me wrong...For $250, its a damn good head, and for $500 used, its an awesome 2x10 combination. It's just that I was starting to build hope that I could abandon the weight of a full-blown tube rig and still get that classic warm goodness, and my test proved me wrong. The SVT Micro rig is worth every penny and is the best tiny rig I have ever played. It's just that it's not an SVT or a B15.

Stainedbass... my personal test was not ultrascientific. No double blind, no RTA or pinknoising of the systems.... Just me attempting to get the best tone from each amp and then comparing each of these together. All I can tell you is that while I tinkered for over 2 hours, the results were obvious within the first 10 seconds. I did a similar thing with a Demeter Rack-and-a-half + Crown K2 vs SVT through 8x10 cab comparison about 4 years ago and the results, while not as immediately obvious as during the current test, were very similar. I use the old-school Demeter Rack-and-a-half for almost every session I do, but nothing beats the compressed goodness of tone generated by voltage sag in the power tube section of a classic tube amp.

JimmyM · #7 06-05-2011, 01:17 AM

The amp that gets the closest to the SVT ideal IMHO is the SVT 7 Pro. It only has one tube but man, it's got some weight to the tone. But again, there's a reason why the 7 Pro is $800 and the SVT-VR is $2000.

But I'll tell you, once I went back to the vintage Ampegs a couple years ago, I swore I'd lug them as long as I could stand it, and would never sacrifice tone for weight again. But then I get this Micro VR as a Christmas present last year, and I can count on one hand the gigs I've used the SVT and B-15. Before every gig, I always say I'm going to break out the tubers, and then I put the Micro VR into the van. Yeah, it doesn't sound as big onstage as the tube rigs and big cabs, and I'm a big cab guy, but mic'ed up through a PA, I don't think I could tell the difference with a gun to my head. My band loves it, every soundman I work with loves it (of course), and though I do miss that big tube sound, I can't say I feel too deprived when I use it. Now if I played in Staind, I might require a wall of 210av's

AMJBASS · #8 06-05-2011, 06:39 AM

Another point is that the B18N has an 18" speaker while the Micro VR cab is a sealed 2x10 enclosure. You want a more accurate comparison, I would plug the B18N head into the VR cab, or vice versa plug the VR head into the 18" cabinet. The Micro VR for what it is, is a pretty smokin' sounding little combo. I would agree that it can cop the SVT sound pretty closely and is ideal for smaller gigs if that is the tone you are looking for. It also weighs about 90 lbs less than the B18N. There is nothing like a tube amp though.

staindbass · #9 06-05-2011, 08:41 AM

me too adrian, i think the different speakers made the biggest difference. jimmy got one for xmass? wow !

Tumeni Notes · #10 06-05-2011, 09:01 AM

"... was the Bee's Knees ...."

You might want to explain that colloquialism to the younger generation.

Johno Dunn · #11 06-05-2011, 09:12 AM

Want to sell the Micro stack?

J!

billoetjen · #12 06-05-2011, 09:16 AM

Then again, there's this....

JimmyM · #13 06-05-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staindbass

me too adrian, i think the different speakers made the biggest difference. jimmy got one for xmass? wow !

Ya, I was quite shocked and surprised! Finally I appeal to people who can do me some good

meatwad · #14 06-05-2011, 08:40 PM

I kinda had the same realization comparing my old SVT-III PRO to my CL. I was about to abandon the CL to the closet in favor of the 3, and for giggles I directly compared them through the same cabs, basses, ect... It wasn't a huge difference, but tubes beat ss/hybrid every time, IMO.

mdgrandy · #15 06-13-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johno Dunn

Want to sell the Micro stack?

J!

Too late, I just bought officespace2's Micro stack from him this past weekend. Brought it to rehearsal, and got nonstop comments from the bandmates about how smooth and creamy I sounded. To be fair, I was using an Ampeg BA112 before, so a lot of that was due to the increased SPL, but man, as a longtime musician but beginning bassist, this thing gives me a whole new appreciation for bass amps and tone.

I'd also like to thank officespace2 for convincing me to join TB. I look forward to many years of TB-induced GAS and minimizing windows at work when the boss walks by

officespace2 · #16 06-13-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdgrandy

Too late, I just bought officespace2's Micro stack from him this past weekend. Brought it to rehearsal, and got nonstop comments from the bandmates about how smooth and creamy I sounded. To be fair, I was using an Ampeg BA112 before, so a lot of that was due to the increased SPL, but man, as a longtime musician but beginning bassist, this thing gives me a whole new appreciation for bass amps and tone.

I'd also like to thank officespace2 for convincing me to join TB. I look forward to many years of TB-induced GAS and minimizing windows at work when the boss walks by

Grandy, take good care of my baby and enjoy Talkbass.com. Its a cool site and there is a lot of useful information on here.