Advice on Hartke amps

[TombassCaton]

I'm thinking of buying a Hartke stack consisting of a 4x10 and a 1x15, like the one in this picture -
Hartke H3500 350watt Bass Rig - Rattle and Drum Music

has anyone had any experience with them?

thankyou

[knucklehead G]

Great customer service, but I'd suggest either two 410s or two 115s, or a 210 and a 115. The 410 and 115 is a classic combo but the cabs don't do much to help each other.

[tom once dead]

+1 to pairing two of the same cabs.
Although a lot of hartke users run a 410+115.

I've played through the just that head and a 410 cab back at my old job. Pretty nice sounding especially for the price tag.

[TombassCaton]

i'm looking to have the punch of a 4x10 but the low end of a 15, and i would most likely use the 4x10 for smaller gigs. Does the 4x10 have a good low end?

thanks for your help

[JTE]

Originally Posted by TombassCaton

i'm looking to have the punch of a 4x10 but the low end of a 15, and i would most likely use the 4x10 for smaller gigs. Does the 4x10 have a good low end?

thanks for your help

There are so many threads that contain the factual discussions of the classic 4x10/1x15 stack. It's not easy to search 'em but there's one that JUST came up this past weekend. Bottom line is:

A. Speaker size doesn't tell you squat about how it sounds. A 15 doesn't have more low end than a 4x10, and a 4x10 doesn't have more "punch" because of speaker size. It's the whole cabinet design, not the speaker size.

B. Most modern 4x10s have at least as much, and frequently MORE low end response than most 1x15s

C. Most 4x10s move more air than most 1x15s so you're dealing with a huge difference in efficiency right off the bat. Most of the extra power going to the 1x15 is wasted because it doesn't create air movement.

D. Mis-matched drivers cause phase cancellations and issues with projection. While it might sound great to you on stage, fifteen feet out it will sound completely different, and you can't really control how the air waves move as well with mismatched rigs.

MOST of the time what happens is someone has a 4x10 by itself. It's OK, but they need more sound (volume, bigger tone, whatever). So they try adding a 1x15 underneath it because a.) they think it'll add more bottom; b.) it looks cool and all the famous people use one including Victor Wooten. And they do have a bigger sound that way. The problem is that they've attributed the bigger sound to it being some magical combination of the 4x10 and the 1x15.

But it's not due to that at all. It's due primarily to two things. First, the 4x10 is now up at their ear so they can hear it better. Second, they're now moving more air. Third, the amp now sees a 4Ω load so it's capable of delivering more power to the whole rig. None of that's at all related to speaker size.

And, if you do the smart thing and try the same thing with a second matched 4x10, you'll get all those benefits, except you'll be moving even more air, AND the speakers will work together much better.

John

[knucklehead G]

Plus the not-so-obvious bonus that if you have two of the same cab and your drummer's cat pees on one 410, you aren't stuck trying to gig with a lone 115 until you get to peel the rat fur off and burn it.

[RickenBoogie]

JTE said it all, and said it well. So, HUGE +1 to his post. In fact, read it twice. It's worth repeating, over and over and over and over.............

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by TombassCaton

i'm looking to have the punch of a 4x10 but the low end of a 15

That's what's referred to by engineers on here as "engineering by looks." I've heard 410's with a ton of low end, and I've heard 115's with lots of punch. The only generalization you can make about speaker sizes is that you can't generalize. It's all in the way the speaker is built and how the cab is designed. You have to judge cabs on a case by case basis, not just assume they're going to sound the same because they use the same size speakers.

[OOZMAN]

IF you're not sure, but still want a cool looking rig, go 4x12 + 1x18.

[jjk2007]

Originally Posted by JTE

There are so many threads that contain the factual discussions of the classic 4x10/1x15 stack. It's not easy to search 'em but there's one that JUST came up this past weekend. Bottom line is:

A. Speaker size doesn't tell you squat about how it sounds. A 15 doesn't have more low end than a 4x10, and a 4x10 doesn't have more "punch" because of speaker size. It's the whole cabinet design, not the speaker size.

B. Most modern 4x10s have at least as much, and frequently MORE low end response than most 1x15s

C. Most 4x10s move more air than most 1x15s so you're dealing with a huge difference in efficiency right off the bat. Most of the extra power going to the 1x15 is wasted because it doesn't create air movement.

D. Mis-matched drivers cause phase cancellations and issues with projection. While it might sound great to you on stage, fifteen feet out it will sound completely different, and you can't really control how the air waves move as well with mismatched rigs.

MOST of the time what happens is someone has a 4x10 by itself. It's OK, but they need more sound (volume, bigger tone, whatever). So they try adding a 1x15 underneath it because a.) they think it'll add more bottom; b.) it looks cool and all the famous people use one including Victor Wooten. And they do have a bigger sound that way. The problem is that they've attributed the bigger sound to it being some magical combination of the 4x10 and the 1x15.

But it's not due to that at all. It's due primarily to two things. First, the 4x10 is now up at their ear so they can hear it better. Second, they're now moving more air. Third, the amp now sees a 4Ω load so it's capable of delivering more power to the whole rig. None of that's at all related to speaker size.

And, if you do the smart thing and try the same thing with a second matched 4x10, you'll get all those benefits, except you'll be moving even more air, AND the speakers will work together much better.

John

+1

[Jeff 66]

I love Hartke products, so I'd say go for it.

And yeah, I think I'd go with all 10s. A pair of 4x10s would be massive. I'd even consider a 4x10 and a 2x10 for maximum options.

Small gig: take the 2x10
Medium: take the 4x10
Big gig: take 'em both.

And to my ears, the Hartke aluminum cones are tight and punchy with plenty of lows.

[TombassCaton]

Originally Posted by JTE

There are so many threads that contain the factual discussions of the classic 4x10/1x15 stack. It's not easy to search 'em but there's one that JUST came up this past weekend. Bottom line is:

A. Speaker size doesn't tell you squat about how it sounds. A 15 doesn't have more low end than a 4x10, and a 4x10 doesn't have more "punch" because of speaker size. It's the whole cabinet design, not the speaker size.

B. Most modern 4x10s have at least as much, and frequently MORE low end response than most 1x15s

C. Most 4x10s move more air than most 1x15s so you're dealing with a huge difference in efficiency right off the bat. Most of the extra power going to the 1x15 is wasted because it doesn't create air movement.

D. Mis-matched drivers cause phase cancellations and issues with projection. While it might sound great to you on stage, fifteen feet out it will sound completely different, and you can't really control how the air waves move as well with mismatched rigs.

MOST of the time what happens is someone has a 4x10 by itself. It's OK, but they need more sound (volume, bigger tone, whatever). So they try adding a 1x15 underneath it because a.) they think it'll add more bottom; b.) it looks cool and all the famous people use one including Victor Wooten. And they do have a bigger sound that way. The problem is that they've attributed the bigger sound to it being some magical combination of the 4x10 and the 1x15.

But it's not due to that at all. It's due primarily to two things. First, the 4x10 is now up at their ear so they can hear it better. Second, they're now moving more air. Third, the amp now sees a 4Ω load so it's capable of delivering more power to the whole rig. None of that's at all related to speaker size.

And, if you do the smart thing and try the same thing with a second matched 4x10, you'll get all those benefits, except you'll be moving even more air, AND the speakers will work together much better.

John

Thankyou for your help. I hope i don't seem ignorant by what i said, i'm only just 18 and i'm new to the world or larger bass rigs. Currently i use a Laney rbw300 (165 watt) and i'm looking to upgrade. I was attracted by Hartke because so far i've only heard good things about them and i'd be interested to try out the aluminium and paper cones. Also, my favorite bassist Nate Watts uses them
Regarding what everyone has said I think i'l go for 2 4x10 cabs or a 4x10 and a 2x10.
Again, thankyou for all your help

[TombassCaton]

Originally Posted by knucklehead G

Plus the not-so-obvious bonus that if you have two of the same cab and your drummer's cat pees on one 410, you aren't stuck trying to gig with a lone 115 until you get to peel the rat fur off and burn it.

That's also a plus

[millsbass5]

Those amps are great. I had the 200 watt model. Great sounding & built like a tank. One of the best on-board compressors I've EVER heard on a amp.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Jeff 66

I'd even consider a 4x10 and a 2x10 for maximum options.

Only if the 4x10 is 4Ω and the 2x10 8Ω or 8Ω and 16Ω respectively. That way each of the tens is working with the same power as any other.

[jjk2007]

Originally Posted by TombassCaton

Thankyou for your help. I hope i don't seem ignorant by what i said, i'm only just 18 and i'm new to the world or larger bass rigs. Currently i use a Laney rbw300 (165 watt) and i'm looking to upgrade. I was attracted by Hartke because so far i've only heard good things about them and i'd be interested to try out the aluminium and paper cones. Also, my favorite bassist Nate Watts uses them
Regarding what everyone has said I think i'l go for 2 4x10 cabs or a 4x10 and a 2x10.
Again, thankyou for all your help

Hey man, questions always welcomed here! Good luck with your gear search and keep us posted what you end up with.

[JimmyM]

It is not ignorant to ask. It is only ignorant to ask, then ignore good advice from people who know. I'm 50, and have been playing for 37 years, and a few years ago I started hanging in amps out of a desire to know what's really doing with my rigs after decades of not caring. Had a lot of my preconceptions shattered, and basically had to relearn everything I thought I knew. But when someone knew something I didn't and had the background to back it up, I listened and learned, and made things a lot better for myself in the process.

So like I said, not knowing something doesn't make you a dope. Not knowing something, asking a question, then ignoring good advice does make you a dope, however. Nice to see you're in the first category...it's a never ending process, and it's fun and makes things better for you when you play. So keep up the good work!

[RickenBoogie]

+1 to that, (Jimmy's post), I'm also an older guy who's been playing for decades, and didn't know squat about my gear until the past few years, hanging out right here. It's amazing the amount of knowledge you can take in on TB.

[rodl2005]

Originally Posted by TombassCaton

Thankyou for your help. I hope i don't seem ignorant by what i said, i'm only just 18 and i'm new to the world or larger bass rigs. Currently i use a Laney rbw300 (165 watt) and i'm looking to upgrade. I was attracted by Hartke because so far i've only heard good things about them and i'd be interested to try out the aluminium and paper cones. Also, my favorite bassist Nate Watts uses them
Regarding what everyone has said I think i'l go for 2 4x10 cabs or a 4x10 and a 2x10.
Again, thankyou for all your help

Are you sure the RBW300 doesn't put out 300w possibly, at 4 ohms?
So you may have the option of adding an ext. cab to what you already have ??

[nicoli]

In my experience, those cabs are on the bright and thin side of things. If that's what you're happy with, go for it. If you're looking for a thicker or fatter tone, I would probably consider other options.