Advice to the Technically Challenged

[ajish4]

I've done the searches, mostly what I find is the REAL TECHNICAL STUFF. Formulas and the like.

I'm hoping you experienced guys/gals out there can give me some practical guidance.

Here is what I have. I'm REALLY hoping not to have to buy anything else....I picked up the EDEN cabs for $100.00 each and they work perfectly. I tested them at the seller's place. Wow. BUT, he had an EDEN HEAD that he used...and wasn't selling it.

Ampeg B2R Head

RMS Power Output (4 ohms): 450-Watts
RMS Power Output (8 ohms): 250-Watts
Preamp: Solid State
Power Amp: MOSFET
Tone Controls: 3-Band
Mid Tone Control: Ultra Mid
Graphic EQ: Yes, 9-Band
Balanced Line Out: Yes, with Pre/Post and Pad
Effects Loop: Yes
Preamp Out/Power Amp In: Yes
Dimensions (W x H x D inches): 19 x 3.5 x15
Weight: 26 Pounds

EDEN D410XLT

Speakers EC-1060XL Cast Frame
Tweeter E-2700 Cast Bell
Crossover 3.5kHz @18db
Power Handling 700W RMS
Freq. Response 50hz - 14khz ±2dB
Sensitivity 106dB SPL@1W1M
Impedance 4Ω or 8Ω
Dimensions 23”w x 27.5”h x 18.5”d
Weight
98 LBS

and an
Eden 210 XLT

Speakers EC-1060XL Cast Frame
Tweeter E-2700 Cast Bell
Crossover 3.5kHz @18db
Power Handling 350W RMS
Freq. Response 48hz - 14khz ±2dB
Sensitivity 103dB SPL@1W1M
Impedance 4Ω or 8Ω
Dimensions 23”w x 19.5”h x 18.5”d
Weight
68 LBS

I'm trying to figure out what would make a better rig.

The Ampeg 410HLF works PERFECTLY. It just isn't CLEAR. The lows are fantastic, the mids are OK and I can squeeze some decent highs out of it. NEVER gave me a problem, its a real workhorse. I play in a very large church and my Ampeg JUST ABOUT MAKES IT over the top. I play in a band that sometime has 20 instruments.
A usual Sunday is rhythm and lead guitar, usually two Taylor T5s, 3 saxes, 3 trumpets, electronic drums, keyboard, piano, 5 vocalists, flute, piccolo, trombone....you get the idea. When the college kids come home, we have some more.

Question is, can I hookup BOTH 4x10 cabs and use them? OR do I use the Eden 4x10 with the 2x10? OR any mix and match? I'm looking to use as MANY speakers as I can. I don't know how this ohms thing works and I've got make a decision this weekend and SELL what I'm not using. Can the head HANDLE more than the 4 10's?

Someone once told me that the PRE AMP in the B2R STINKS. I hooked up a Sansamp DI box in the back of the head which supposedly bypasses the pre in the amp...still sounded the same.

IF you guys come up with a "change the head" scenario, I won't be able to do that until after the New Year.

SO, thoughts?

[Nashrakh]

The Edens have an impedance switch?

You should be able to use them no problem then - in any combination you want. Two of the 8ohm 4x10s will give you 4 ohm, and the head will put out 450 watts then.

Should be plenty loud. You could also use the 2x10 with a 4x10 or just 2 2x10s (though you could just use a single 4x10 instead as well lol). That is, if every cab is switched to 8 ohm.

[Pilgrim]

I think you're taking a good approach - instead of blindly swapping equipment, see what information you can get here that will help you try different adjustments and connections to get the most you can out of your current equipment.

Comments like "Someone once told me that the PRE AMP in the B2R STINKS" are highly questionable. The person speaking may not have had any idea whatinthehell he was talking about. Take that with a grain of salt. In fact, take any absolute statements like "this is the best in the world' or 'this always sucks" as opinion, not fact. Such statements are seldom anything but highly prejudiced opinion.

But be aware that in the end, only your own ears can confirm whether you are on target or not - and what the AUDIENCE hears is at least as important. If you attain 90% of what you want but the audience really LIKES what they hear, don't spend thousands of dollars more chasing that last 10%. Not worth it.

[RickenBoogie]

What matters most here, is the impedance load on the amp. The Ampeg is 4 ohms MINIMUM- and you've said the Edens cabs are 4 or 8 ohms, you need to know which it is, 'cause it ain't both. If ANY of the cabs are indeed 4 ohms, you can use only ONE at any given time, or else you'll go below 4 ohms. Find out what you've got first, then figure out the rest.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

What matters most here, is the impedance load on the amp. The Ampeg is 4 ohms MINIMUM- and you've said the Edens cabs are 4 or 8 ohms, you need to know which it is, 'cause it ain't both. If ANY of the cabs are indeed 4 ohms, you can use only ONE at any given time, or else you'll go below 4 ohms. Find out what you've got first, then figure out the rest.

+1. Your speakers aren't "4 or 8 ohms" they're one or the other. If you have two 8ohm boxes, you've got a total load of 4 ohms and you're good to go with your Ampeg amp. If you've got a 4 and an 8, then you're in trouble and you won't be able to run your amp. I'm guessing if the guy had Eden head, you're probably looking at 2x8ohm cabs, but you need to check to make sure.

[ajish4]

Originally Posted by Nashrakh

The Edens have an impedance switch?

No, no switch that I'm aware of, unless it's inside?

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Comments like "Someone once told me that the PRE AMP in the B2R STINKS" are highly questionable. The person speaking may not have had any idea whatinthehell he was talking about. Take that with a grain of salt. In fact, take any absolute statements like "this is the best in the world' or 'this always sucks" as opinion, not fact. Such statements are seldom anything but highly prejudiced opinion.

But be aware that in the end, only your own ears can confirm whether you are on target or not - and what the AUDIENCE hears is at least as important. If you attain 90% of what you want but the audience really LIKES what they hear, don't spend thousands of dollars more chasing that last 10%. Not worth it.

Very good advice, and I'll make a lot of use of it! THANKS!



Thanks everyone.

I REALLY appreciate all the help.

I don't know how to tell what the OHM rating is. The info I listed was lifted from the EDEN web site.

The back of the speakers don't have the OHMS rating on the back plate....it lists the WATTS and next to it, there is an 8 with a crossed Z, like the letter "t", but NOTHING on the cabs that has the word "Ohms" on it.

Is there a way to go about figuring out the readings without taking the speakers out of the cab?

Thanks again!

Tony

[M0ses]

That crossed Z stands for Ohms. Don't know why they don't use the standard symbol, but they're also talking about impedence when they say hi-z or lo-z inputs/outputs.

[okcrum]

He meant that you can buy the Edens in either 4 or 8 ohms.

OP, the impedance (Z) of the Eden cabs should be on the back plate. Two 8 ohm cabs will work fine with your B2R. If the ratings aren't there, you can check them with an ohmmeter to determine what impedance they are.

[cgnortheast]

If those are both 8 ohm, run them both.
If they aren't, meaning 1 is 4 and the other is 8, run the 410. More surface area = more air moved = louder.

[ajish4]

Originally Posted by M0ses

That crossed Z stands for Ohms. Don't know why they don't use the standard symbol, but they're also talking about impedence when they say hi-z or lo-z inputs/outputs.

Thank you M0ses! Just to verify, these are then 8 Ohm cabs? YES?
Here are a few quick pics....I tried the multimeter, and my probe doesn't go in enough to get a reading.

Do these pics help?

[mwbassace]

The above posters are correct. That Z symbol stands for impedance, which is the same as resistance(more or less, impedance is used when dealing w/ AC, resistance DC). So that cab is 8 ohms & for what you said your looking to get I'd suggest the 2 4x10 cabs to get a 4 ohm load & the most output from your amp. If the 2x10 is also 8 ohms that will still give you a 4 ohm load(when paired w/another 8 ohm cab), but 8 speakers will give more SPL's than 6.

[JimmyM]

hey, don't worry about what anyone else likes. if you like it, that's what's important.

[Chef]

with those two cabs, i'd sell the ampeg, and get an eden head;
either the wt550 or better yet, a wt800b.
either of those is capable of driving both cabs, and the head is made to work with those cabs.

[Jeff Scott]

Hmm, and here I thought I was going to get some advice!

As long as both cabinets are 8Ω, you're good to go, T. Just make sure the bass you plug in to the amp is JETGLO!

[ajish4]

Originally Posted by Chef

with those two cabs, i'd sell the ampeg, and get an eden head;
either the wt550 or better yet, a wt800b.
either of those is capable of driving both cabs, and the head is made to work with those cabs.

There's a thought....I guess I could always sell the B2R.....ugh! LOL!

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

Hmm, and here I thought I was going to get some advice!

As long as both cabinets are 8Ω, you're good to go, T. Just make sure the bass you plug in to the amp is JETGLO!

Sorry J, beat you to it!

And get that Jetglo oil slick bass out of here!