Aguilar - Official 'Tone Hammer 500' 3.8lbs 500w Thread #2

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by KJung

Hello! Yes, I'm out of the clip business. Most of the clips were of products no longer in production, and since I'm not in Detroit any more and don't have that constant stream o gear and players coming through the house, I kind of retired!

Again, loving it with the P. I personally need a more open, clean, extended upper mid and treble response for my personal J tone, but for a more 60's/nickel or flatwound J tone, the TH500 is killer. I just need the 'snap' when I go that route (with my 70's style J) and have other heads that do that thing better.

I want to hit the button and buy it but the treble is the only thing that stops me. Everything I hear about the amp is nothing but short of great. My only draw back is that its highs are based around 4K. Which is fine and can get a good snap, but not the sizzle that some others make. Not saying my playing is based on slapping but on occasion when needed I don't want to search hard for it. Would like to buy a smaller lighter amp when needed, but not sure the TH500 is it but would love it if it were because it pretty much has everything else. A great amp from what i hear.

[Joelc73]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

I want to hit the button and buy it but the treble is the only thing that stops me. Everything I hear about the amp is nothing but short of great. My only draw back is that its highs are based around 4K. Which is fine and can get a good snap, but not the sizzle that some others make. Not saying my playing is based on slapping but on occasion when needed I don't want to search hard for it. Would like to buy a smaller lighter amp when needed, but not sure the TH500 is it but would love it if it were because it pretty much has everything else. A great amp from what i hear.

If you're looking for Marcus-type sizzle and air, it just isn't there. It does have plenty of what I need though -- even when it comes to slapping on an ash/maple JJ bass. I'm using it through an AE cab. I like it a lot.

I did miss the high end on my TC RH450. The TH head has just enough high-end for me.

[jumblemind]

Trigger pulled. Returned the MB Big Bang just now and ordered the 'Hammer. Not available to even ship til next week, unfortunately. I'll have to scrounge another amp for this weekend, but I've staked my claim, dadgummit.

I'm guessing my old cabinets aren't going to cut it with what will likely be the nicest amp I've owned. Guess I better get back to saving.

[Ewo]

Originally Posted by Joelc73

If you're looking for Marcus-type sizzle and air, it just isn't there. It does have plenty of what I need though -- even when it comes to slapping on an ash/maple JJ bass.

My experience as well, likewise slapping on an ash/maple JJ.

In the past I've always needed to rein in the top end; pops tended to sound brittle and glassy, which wasn't what I was after. Not a problem on the TH500.

[pauliebass]

The treble control can actually be used on this amp a lot.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by pauliebass

The treble control can actually be used on this amp a lot.

+1 It sounds open and full to me. I think for those who haven't tried the TH500 they could get the impression from this thread that it is dark and never clean. IME, it's completely clean when the Drive is off, even if you push the gain hard. There is some airy stuff that isn't quite there like on a LMII/III for example, but it's very subtle, and in the audience I can bet that difference would be pretty negligible at best. Personally, that pingy/zingy tone never works live, even when I hear other great players who swear by it. I remember seeing Mark King once and I thought his bass sounded horrible. Usually I can listen to any famous person and enjoy it for what it is, but his bass was so razor sharp all night that it was literally painful to listen to. I kept thinking his tone would be so much better if he could just roll back a VTC a little on his bass. Not to pick on Mark as he's a killer player, but I hear a lot of guys locally going for that kind of tone who I SERIOUSLY think have no business trying to pull that thing off in any context.

I've read and participated in discussions around here with some heavy players like Nitti, Gwizdala, Vogt, etc who have stressed very specifically about getting your tone dialed in before you can expect to have any kind of success in a music career. Showing up to gigs with that zingy mess, IMO, is not a good thing so you better have a killer pocket and giant ears to compensate for it. I also recall some of the hip-hop players in one thread here (a few big names participating) talking about NEVER showing up to a hip-hop gig with a bright tone if you want to get a call-back. It goes on and on.

Anyway, I agree the TH isn't the bright, airy kind of thing, but I dare say it is bright enough and some folks could really sound better (hello Mark King) if they would use it instead of whatever else they are using.

/end rant.

[blowinblue]

+1. Reminds me of my old TB sig line. Bass should be more about woofin'...less about tweetin'.

M. M.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eublet

+1 It sounds open and full to me. I think for those who haven't tried the TH500 they could get the impression from this thread that it is dark and never clean. IME, it's completely clean when the Drive is off, even if you push the gain hard. There is some airy stuff that isn't quite there like on a LMII/III for example, but it's very subtle, and in the audience I can bet that difference would be pretty negligible at best. Personally, that pingy/zingy tone never works live, even when I hear other great players who swear by it. I remember seeing Mark King once and I thought his bass sounded horrible. Usually I can listen to any famous person and enjoy it for what it is, but his bass was so razor sharp all night that it was literally painful to listen to. I kept thinking his tone would be so much better if he could just roll back a VTC a little on his bass. Not to pick on Mark as he's a killer player, but I hear a lot of guys locally going for that kind of tone who I SERIOUSLY think have no business trying to pull that thing off in any context.

I've read and participated in discussions around here with some heavy players like Nitti, Gwizdala, Vogt, etc who have stressed very specifically about getting your tone dialed in before you can expect to have any kind of success in a music career. Showing up to gigs with that zingy mess, IMO, is not a good thing so you better have a killer pocket and giant ears to compensate for it. I also recall some of the hip-hop players in one thread here (a few big names participating) talking about NEVER showing up to a hip-hop gig with a bright tone if you want to get a call-back. It goes on and on.

Anyway, I agree the TH isn't the bright, airy kind of thing, but I dare say it is bright enough and some folks could really sound better (hello Mark King) if they would use it instead of whatever else they are using.

/end rant.

+1 in general. However, my issue is more with the 'clean' part than the extension of the upper treble. Again, not a positive or a negative, it just 'is'. I also find that, no matter where the drive and/or gain is set, if you really dig in, that head is going to 'grunt'. That, again is a good thing in many contexts and tone goals. It is not IMO a good thing when slamming a slap transient into that head, at least for certain tone goals.

Of course, my Glockenklang is so clean and wide that it hurts, and it won't do what the TH500 does at all. No way to ever get the top end of that amp to be anything but clean purity. Nothing wrong with that either!

Anyway, my point is not about 'GK super sizzle' or whatever, which I too have grown to pretty much hate, but rather a relatively clean, open top end, which I enjoy on my stainless steel roundwound loaded instruments. There is plenty of 'treble', and the nature of that treble just makes a P bass grind up there (and growl down low). It just 'is what it is' and no amount of knob turning results in the top end of this head soundind ANYTHING like my Markbass heads, much less my Glock

Again, for me, with a P Bass, that is actually a good thing.
For others who want a more meaty, rough slap tone or use flatwound strings or enjoy worn in nickels, the TH500 sounds great. Again, not a 'good thing or a bad thing', but this head has its own strong voicing (similar to the DB750 to my ear) and while you can vary the tonality a bit, that 'fat, chewy' Aguilar tone is always present.

IMO and IME. For those who like the tone of a more vintage cab (2 x 15 or 6x 10 or whatever), the drive control is magnificent for bringing in the low end, bringing in the top end, and adding varying levels of break-up that emulates that 'top of the cone one way sealed cab' sort of thing wonderfully.

[Eublet]

I think you and I are on the same page here, Ken. To me, the LMII, set flat, or perhaps even with a little bass and treble boost, is open and zingy but won't be harsh. That's cool, and not the extreme I'm talking about. I also think a lot of what I am referring to above is when guys have a 210 sitting horizontally on the floor 3 feet behind them, and they've got the tweeters on full blast with the treble boosted so they can hear their highs. Meanwhile out in the audience I'm making giant spit balls out of a cocktail napkin so that I can stuff them in my ear.

I agree with you about the grunt is kind of there. It's not a pristine tone and has a little character. It's a hard thing to describe, but it's there sure enough, and enough so that some folks know they don't care for that Aguilar thing. I think the reasons some folks don't like it might have more to do with what you are trying to describe than it is with the fairly subtle EQ curve, though the two things together add up to what has made Aguilar popular with some players. It's very much a cross between organic warmth and modern tone. The AGS is relatively new the last few years, though Aguilar has had some "drive" options for a while. To me the Aguilar tone isn't about the AGS or the over drive, but rather that straight up flat sound of the AG500 or db680, which the TH500 is certainly following in the same vein.

[Green Lantern]

To help my bass have more top end, i have down three things to assist in this area.

1. On my DB 212 cabinet I set the tweeter control to 3oclock.
2. I boost the active treble knob on my bass.
3. If need more, I reduce the mids on the TH500 which brings out all the high end I need including getting a more Marcus Miller sound. No it does not sound like Marcus Miller but much closer to his sound.

Yes the TH does not offer a crystal clear sound (thank goodness). From someone coming from a tube amp, the richer tone you get with the TH500 offers a more character sound which I like a lot.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 in general. However, my issue is more with the 'clean' part than the extension of the upper treble. Again, not a positive or a negative, it just 'is'. I also find that, no matter where the drive and/or gain is set, if you really dig in, that head is going to 'grunt'. That, again is a good thing in many contexts and tone goals. It is not IMO a good thing when slamming a slap transient into that head, at least for certain tone goals.

Of course, my Glockenklang is so clean and wide that it hurts, and it won't do what the TH500 does at all. No way to ever get the top end of that amp to be anything but clean purity. Nothing wrong with that either!

Anyway, my point is not about 'GK super sizzle' or whatever, which I too have grown to pretty much hate, but rather a relatively clean, open top end, which I enjoy on my stainless steel roundwound loaded instruments. There is plenty of 'treble', and the nature of that treble just makes a P bass grind up there (and growl down low). It just 'is what it is' and no amount of knob turning results in the top end of this head soundind ANYTHING like my Markbass heads, much less my Glock

Again, for me, with a P Bass, that is actually a good thing.
For others who want a more meaty, rough slap tone or use flatwound strings or enjoy worn in nickels, the TH500 sounds great. Again, not a 'good thing or a bad thing', but this head has its own strong voicing (similar to the DB750 to my ear) and while you can vary the tonality a bit, that 'fat, chewy' Aguilar tone is always present.

IMO and IME. For those who like the tone of a more vintage cab (2 x 15 or 6x 10 or whatever), the drive control is magnificent for bringing in the low end, bringing in the top end, and adding varying levels of break-up that emulates that 'top of the cone one way sealed cab' sort of thing wonderfully.

What head would have it all in your opinion. I mean still have that bottom and mids like a aguilar but still have a high end with a little more shelving. Instead of 4k maybe 6 or 8 K.

[Bassist30]

I should just get the aguilar. No amp has it all, and it would be nice to have something easy to carry when needed.

[CaptainWally]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

I should just get the aguilar. No amp has it all, and it would be nice to have something easy to carry when needed.

The only amps I like more than my TH500 at the moment are the Orange Terror 500/1000 amps. YMMV.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

I should just get the aguilar. No amp has it all, and it would be nice to have something easy to carry when needed.

After playing through a TH500 at home when a friend brought it over, I would not let the comments about the relaxed highs scare you away, unless you truly crave snappy, bright sizzle. (I have found that I dial back the high end to compensate for that bright sound on my basses with other amps. I found the Top end on the Aguiltar to be very pleasant with my Nordy VJ5 basses.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by CaptainWally

The only amps I like more than my TH500 at the moment are the Orange Terror 500/1000 amps. YMMV.

Cosmic! ...and Capt Wally's TH500 was the one I got to demo! ...and I liked my Orange TB500 better too. ;-) But still understand why there is so much love for the Tonehammer 500.

[CaptainWally]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Cosmic! ...and Capt Wally's TH500 was the one I got to demo! ...and I liked my Orange TB500 better too. ;-) But still understand why there is so much love for the Tonehammer 500.

Nothing wrong with the TH500 until you A/B it with something you like better.

The Orange seems to have all the girth and low end grunt of the TH500 (or more?), but it's a little snappier and lively than the TH500. A direct comparison made the TH500 sound a little darker.

YMMV. I'm still on the fence as to whether the "upgrade" is worth the time and money to me. Plus the form factor of the Orange is perfectly functional...but a little...unusual.

As a reference, I prefer the TH500 to the LM2, GK MB/Fusion, Genz Benz, Ampeg mini/micros, so I'm already at the top of my preference zone here.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by CaptainWally

The Orange seems to have all the girth and low end grunt of the TH500 (or more?), but it's a little snappier and lively than the TH500. A direct comparison made the TH500 sound a little darker.

FWIW, the Orange TB500 has a pretty curvy contour applied right out of the gate...scooped mids, low mid push, and a zingy curve in the upper mids and lower treble. I don't have one, but I got this from the BGM article. I posted settings somewhere here a few days ago for the TH500 that very closely approximated that EQ curve on a scope I took. It would be cool if someone who has both could try it and see how close it gets tonally.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

FWIW, the Orange TB500 has a pretty curvy contour applied right out of the gate...scooped mids, low mid push, and a zingy curve in the upper mids and lower treble. I don't have one, but I got this from the BGM article. I posted settings somewhere here a few days ago for the TH500 that very closely approximated that EQ curve on a scope I took. It would be cool if someone who has both could try it and see how close it gets tonally.

Funny thing is, when I gig with my Orange TB500, it performs like the mids are fat and complex as hell! Cuts, grinds, punches like a prize fighter. whatever the eq is out of the gate ....I like it and don't feel the need to vary from noon much at all.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Funny thing is, when I gig with my Orange TB500, it performs like the mids are fat and complex as hell! Cuts, grinds, punches like a prize fighter. whatever the eq is out of the gate ....I like it and don't feel the need to vary from noon much at all.

I believe it because the curve on the Orange is very popular. Check out the BGM article online. The Orange uses a Fender tone stack. It's flat when the bass and treble are completely off and the mids are fully boosted, which seems drastic but it is legit. This would be about where the Tone Hammer starts, so you have to keep this in mind when comparing the two. The Orange will definitely sound fuller than the TH otherwise. That EQ curve was baked in to most tube heads that came out in the 70's which is why so many people love it even with the dreaded "scooped" term. The TH EQ is very powerful, more so than a Fender stack, and can get that general shape also. That doesn't mean it'll sound the same of course, because other things are at work, but it will help level the playing field when comparing.

Also, FWIW, the Genz Streamliner has that same curve as the Orange, yet I don't think they sound anything alike in terms of tube warmth that I've heard. But the Streamliner is very fat like that right out of the gate, and it makes comparisons to more flatly voiced heads like the TH difficult if one isn't willing to twist knobs.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Also, FWIW, the Genz Streamliner has that same curve as the Orange, yet I don't think they sound anything alike in terms of tube warmth that I've heard. But the Streamliner is very fat like that right out of the gate, and it makes comparisons to more flatly voiced heads like the TH difficult if one isn't willing to twist knobs.

What? Streamliner sounded Nothing like the Orange to my ears. the Orange and Tonehammer 500 however I think could be eq'd to be somewhat similar. But maybe not identical.