Aguilar - Official 'Tone Hammer 500' 3.8lbs 500w Thread #2

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

What? Streamliner sounded Nothing like the Orange to my ears. the Orange and Tonehammer 500 however I think could be eq'd to be somewhat similar. But maybe not identical.

I know. Funny isn't it?

[astack]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Funny thing is, when I gig with my Orange TB500, it performs like the mids are fat and complex as hell! Cuts, grinds, punches like a prize fighter. whatever the eq is out of the gate ....I like it and don't feel the need to vary from noon much at all.

+1 to not all in the eq curve.

I gigged the Orange head for a bit, and that was the only time the gf told me "wow I really heard could actually hear the bass." I ended up returning it and went with the Aggie to "sit" more in the mix, but that Orange just snarls unlike the TH which is more wool than bite, ime and imo. Tried to tame the snarl, but it felt like animal cruelty to cage that animal.

[CaptainWally]

Originally Posted by astack

+1 to not all in the eq curve.

I gigged the Orange head for a bit, and that was the only time the gf told me "wow I really heard the bass." I ended up returning it and went with the Aggie to "sit" more in the mix, but that Orange just snarls unlike the TH which is more wool than bite, ime and imo. Tried to tame the snarl, but it felt like animal cruelty to cage that animal.

Wait, your gf told you "wow, I really heard the bass", and that prompted you to switch amps?

Interesting comments. GRoberts and I were comparing the TH500, Orange, LM2, and Mesa Carbine M6.

I felt that way about the M6. Awesome amp, but has a serious amount of zing and snarl. The Orange has less than the Carbine, but more than the TH500.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by CaptainWally

Wait, your gf told you "wow, I really heard the bass", and that prompted you to switch amps?

Interesting comments. GRoberts and I were comparing the TH500, Orange, LM2, and Mesa Carbine M6.

I felt that way about the M6. Awesome amp, but has a serious amount of zing and snarl. The Orange has less than the Carbine, but more than the TH500.

As ou might guess since I was there, I totally agree. Tempted to let o of the Mesa M6 in fact. But it really is very good in its own way too. But my preferences ar largely toward the more relaxed highs, complex mids, grunt and growl of the TH500 and Orange TB 500.

[zeb_bass]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

I want to hit the button and buy it but the treble is the only thing that stops me.....

You need to check this amp out it has a fine slap tone DO NOT a priori be turned off by the comments regarding treble response. It has plenty of treble where you need it in the mix in order to have a great slap tone that works for the music.
It will definately will not give you the 20kHz shimmering Glockenklang highs (which never work in the mix) but it will deliver an excellent slap tone.

The TH500 is just a magic box that slots the bass sound in the mix beautifully in a very good way. You´ll plug in and instantly sound like on an excellent studio recording.
Also do not be afraid to crank that treble knob. I understand on most amps bassists do not touch the treble knob other than maybe a slight cut. Once you get your head around the idea that its 100% legal to cranck the treble knob in order to add highs if desired its great.

Some youtube references of sound territory you can expect:

set flat it will exactly sound like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKO8rnKg94o

Add highs, cut mids, drive at zero (evtl. -15 db pad, I found it can make a passive basses sound more open and the gain range is huge in order to compensate for evtl. gain loss ) will get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRrVjt4oGQlap

The TH propably never get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

But then again I do not know how it will behave with an 80s super bass with low impedance pickups and an active circuit that crazily boosts the upper treble, since I am down to only J basses.

cheers,
zeb

[zeb_bass]

Originally Posted by KJung

.... I also find that, no matter where the drive and/or gain is set, if you really dig in, that head is going to 'grunt'....

Hey KJung
I think you might be running the gain unintentionally always a little on the hot side. The gain on this amp is inherently very hot meaning the first stage can be hit very easily hard.
Coupled with the rather strange concept of the clip indicator (which untill today I have not fully understood) there is really no way to control this other than using you ear.

I had an eye (well rather "ear") opening experience when I first got the amp with my passive Jazz and the OC-2. Whenever I stepped on the Octave the sub octave was distorted. Bypassed my sound was great. I reduced the gain a little still distorted...
I was very disappointed and short from returning the amp. I was like what The F** this crap box can not even reproduce the synth-y sub sine waves of my trusted OC2, which I like so much without distortion.
Untill I found how much I really needed to reduce the gain. Essentially without using the -15db pad it was impossible to get clean sub bass.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by zeb_bass

You need to check this amp out it has a fine slap tone DO NOT a priori be turned off by the comments regarding treble response. It has plenty of treble where you need it in the mix in order to have a great slap tone that works for the music.
It will definately will not give you the 20kHz shimmering Glockenklang highs (which never work in the mix) but it will deliver an excellent slap tone.

The TH500 is just a magic box that slots the bass sound in the mix beautifully in a very good way. You´ll plug in and instantly sound like on an excellent studio recording.
Also do not be afraid to crank that treble knob. I understand on most amps bassists do not touch the treble knob other than maybe a slight cut. Once you get your head around the idea that its 100% legal to cranck the treble knob in order to add highs if desired its great.

Some youtube references of sound territory you can expect:

set flat it will exactly sound like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKO8rnKg94o

Add highs, cut mids, drive at zero (evtl. -15 db pad, I found it can make a passive basses sound more open and the gain range is huge in order to compensate for evtl. gain loss ) will get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRrVjt4oGQlap

The TH propably never get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

But then again I do not know how it will behave with an 80s super bass with low impedance pickups and an active circuit that crazily boosts the upper treble, since I am down to only J basses.

cheers,
zeb

We are all pretty much saying the same thing. It comes down to personal taste. And again, it isn't really about the amount of treble response, but the entire voicing of the amp, the distortion levels, etc. It is what it is. If you like a fat, organic tone with a little bit of hair in in, you will love this amp. If you like it very clean with a very even tonal footpring, there are much better choices. Again, not good or bad, and what we personally like or think 'will work in a mix or not' is valid, but not really impactful or relevant to what others might think 'works in a mix'

Also, to the Streamliner comparison a few posts up, that is a great example of what distortion levels and other voicing components of an amp do to the preformance/tone of the amp. Unlike the TH500 (and from the reviews, the Orange Terror), the Streamliner really can cop that TOTALLY clean, wide, pure 'all tube' like tone, with extended lows, totally clean, relaxed mids, and very, very clean, extended top end that is unique and really brings to mind the top end of some of the all tube amps I have played when they are run at relatively low volumes so that everything stays clean.

Lots of ways to get 'tube tone' as we use that term on TB, and there are LOTS of different versions of that sort of 'warm tone', from the wide, clean, pure Streamliner to the grunty, growly TH500, etc., etc.

If, however, a player is looking for 'clean and modern' (and that is a VERY valid tone goal IMO), these would be the last heads I would recommend.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by zeb_bass

Hey KJung
I think you might be running the gain unintentionally always a little on the hot side. The gain on this amp is inherently very hot meaning the first stage can be hit very easily hard.
Coupled with the rather strange concept of the clip indicator (which untill today I have not fully understood) there is really no way to control this other than using you ear.

I had an eye (well rather "ear") opening experience when I first got the amp with my passive Jazz and the OC-2. Whenever I stepped on the Octave the sub octave was distorted. Bypassed my sound was great. I reduced the gain a little still distorted...
I was very disappointed and short from returning the amp. I was like what The F** this crap box can not even reproduce the synth-y sub sine waves of my trusted OC2, which I like so much without distortion.
Untill I found how much I really needed to reduce the gain. Essentially without using the -15db pad it was impossible to get clean sub bass.

+1 The gain really does drive the harmonic distorion level of the amp. I typically run it pretty low (around 9 o'clock) and it gives me a nice wide open low end. If I really dig in, it will snarl and grunt, which is why I bought the head. Very nice circuit!

Again, if you want clean reproduction, I would choose another amp that is designed primarily to do that. This is why I love having both the Markbass head and the TH500.... they both do what they do wonderfully!

[Eublet]

I agree with everyone that EQ is only a very small part of the reasons you might like a head or not, but IME, if the frequency response of heads are vastly different, then it can make comparing them even more difficult. If one head can be made to have a contour similar to another, then it can sometimes change one's opinion about a head completely. For example, I would never have liked the Shuttle amps if I would only run them flat. I had to boost lows and low mids, which helped them line up more evenly with the already boosted highs baked into the tone, and conversely created a bit of scoop in the upper mids. The contour wound up being similar to what the Orange head is, and I loved it on the Shuttle. On the Streamliner however, though the contour was already pretty similar, the clarity of the head caused the mids to be rather non-complex and somewhat lacking IMHO, and I could never get that contour to have the right character I wanted it to have.

On the Tone Hammer, the warmth of the head combined with it's relatively flat inherrent tone causes it to sound rather blurry in a mix IMHO if you don't twist some EQ knobs. I usually use the AGS (pedal) or Drive (head) to create that vintage rolloff in the highs and lows, and then scoop the upper mids a little (-2 or -3dB) followed by a somewhat generous boost in the low end. The resulting shape is similar to the Orange TB500, and it helps offset that wooly mid center since it is scooped out a bit.

IMHO, most amps that have a wooly, gritty and/or organic nature need a little mid scoop in order to make the tone work for my needs. The complexity from the harmonic content in the mids is too much without it, so you can get away with scooping things a bit and still have a very present tone. YMMV.

[Green Lantern]

I love the Tone Hammer 500, but there is about 10 percent of the time I may want another sound as well. For now I can use my sons Eden combo if I want, but really the Aguilar is it for me. It has the tone want which is not too crystal clear like the Boogie, though once in a while it would be a nice change. I am glad I purchases the 4 ohm 212 as I will never want to lug two stacks. The volume of the full 500 watts is great!

[lgrankin]

Do you get Paul Turner's and Marcus Miller's chops along with the purchase of the TH500?

Originally Posted by zeb_bass

You need to check this amp out it has a fine slap tone DO NOT a priori be turned off by the comments regarding treble response. It has plenty of treble where you need it in the mix in order to have a great slap tone that works for the music.
It will definately will not give you the 20kHz shimmering Glockenklang highs (which never work in the mix) but it will deliver an excellent slap tone.

The TH500 is just a magic box that slots the bass sound in the mix beautifully in a very good way. You´ll plug in and instantly sound like on an excellent studio recording.
Also do not be afraid to crank that treble knob. I understand on most amps bassists do not touch the treble knob other than maybe a slight cut. Once you get your head around the idea that its 100% legal to cranck the treble knob in order to add highs if desired its great.

Some youtube references of sound territory you can expect:

set flat it will exactly sound like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKO8rnKg94o

Add highs, cut mids, drive at zero (evtl. -15 db pad, I found it can make a passive basses sound more open and the gain range is huge in order to compensate for evtl. gain loss ) will get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRrVjt4oGQlap

The TH propably never get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

But then again I do not know how it will behave with an 80s super bass with low impedance pickups and an active circuit that crazily boosts the upper treble, since I am down to only J basses.

cheers,
zeb

[astack]

Originally Posted by astack

+1 to not all in the eq curve.

I gigged the Orange head for a bit, and that was the only time the gf told me "wow I really heard could actually hear the bass." I ended up returning it and went with the Aggie to "sit" more in the mix, but that Orange just snarls unlike the TH which is more wool than bite, ime and imo. Tried to tame the snarl, but it felt like animal cruelty to cage that animal.

I worded that weirdly... but yeah, I still switched after.

On another note, I just got my first all-tube head, and while I haven't A/B'd the two yet, I can finally really understand what the TH and TB are going for with their character. Listening to recordings where I've always thought "man I want THAT sound" is close to what I hear in these micros, but is REALLY in the tube head. And there is a huge difference when you push the heads to their limits. (The micros have enough power that you never have to run them like that, IME, so in a way it's a minor point.) The TH and TB just sound fizzy and compressed, defensive. The tube amp goes on the offense.

I think for the time being, the TH will become the backup, which is a totally overkill backup... Or maybe use the head as a preamp... it'd probably fit on a pedal board anyway.

[rodl2005]

Congrats ASTACK. Which tube amp'd u get?

[Musicman20]

I'm very tempted to try one these. I love the Aguilar sound (I have the TH pedal and a 4 ohm DB212) so I think this would make a magnificant addition to my amps. I don't need it...but I'm curious.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by zeb_bass

You need to check this amp out it has a fine slap tone DO NOT a priori be turned off by the comments regarding treble response. It has plenty of treble where you need it in the mix in order to have a great slap tone that works for the music.
It will definately will not give you the 20kHz shimmering Glockenklang highs (which never work in the mix) but it will deliver an excellent slap tone.

The TH500 is just a magic box that slots the bass sound in the mix beautifully in a very good way. You´ll plug in and instantly sound like on an excellent studio recording.
Also do not be afraid to crank that treble knob. I understand on most amps bassists do not touch the treble knob other than maybe a slight cut. Once you get your head around the idea that its 100% legal to cranck the treble knob in order to add highs if desired its great.

Some youtube references of sound territory you can expect:

set flat it will exactly sound like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKO8rnKg94o

Add highs, cut mids, drive at zero (evtl. -15 db pad, I found it can make a passive basses sound more open and the gain range is huge in order to compensate for evtl. gain loss ) will get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDRrVjt4oGQlap

The TH propably never get you there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

But then again I do not know how it will behave with an 80s super bass with low impedance pickups and an active circuit that crazily boosts the upper treble, since I am down to only J basses.

cheers,
zeb

Nice Zeb. Great comparisons.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Musicman20

I'm very tempted to try one these. I love the Aguilar sound (I have the TH pedal and a 4 ohm DB212) so I think this would make a magnificant addition to my amps. I don't need it...but I'm curious.

It sounds GREAT with the DB cabs.... warm, fat, punchy.

I've been playing through it most of the day today. That semi-parametric mid is just SO powerful on this amp. As Eublet has been posting, LOTS of sound in that mid circuit.

I love to boost the mids around 600hz (of course, this is very dependent on the cab or bass, but the higher range of the mid-mids) or so and hit it with the P Bass. It does that GRAAAAAAANNNNNK when you hit it... just snarls. Very cool in a mix, and this head is just so reactive to playing dynamics. Of course, I like heads like the Glock that stay TOTALLY the same sounding no matter what, but it is also fun to have a head that is really part of the instrument.

One of my best purchases ever. Not too expensive. Simple, light, reliable, looks good, perfect feature set, and even a bag from Aguilar that doesn't suck (i.e., plenty of storage, good design, good quality, and the head actually fits in it nicely

[pauliebass]

Originally Posted by KJung

It sounds GREAT with the DB cabs.... warm, fat, punchy.

I've been playing through it most of the day today. That semi-parametric mid is just SO powerful on this amp. As Eublet has been posting, LOTS of sound in that mid circuit.

I love to boost the mids around 600hz (of course, this is very dependent on the cab or bass, but the higher range of the mid-mids) or so and hit it with the P Bass. It does that GRAAAAAAANNNNNK when you hit it... just snarls. Very cool in a mix, and this head is just so reactive to playing dynamics. Of course, I like heads like the Glock that stay TOTALLY the same sounding no matter what, but it is also fun to have a head that is really part of the instrument.

One of my best purchases ever. Not too expensive. Simple, light, reliable, looks good, perfect feature set, and even a bag from Aguilar that doesn't suck (i.e., plenty of storage, good design, good quality, and the head actually fits in it nicely

+1 on all. The bag is wonderfully made. 100% pro. Of course any bag is great compared to the TC Electronic bag for the RH450 that I'm coming from.

[astack]

Originally Posted by rodl2005

Congrats ASTACK. Which tube amp'd u get?

Early 70's V4B. Pure rock and roll.

[rodl2005]

Originally Posted by astack

Early 70's V4B. Pure rock and roll.

Oooh, sweet! That's an amp I wish was more available 2nd hand here in OZ

[Humabass]

Can I drive an external power amp? If so, which output do I use, Send or Bal Out?