Aguilar - Official 'Tone Hammer 500' 3.8lbs 500w Thread #3

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

I would ditch those cabs. They are great for the money, but a 'sonic compromise'. I tried the TH500 with a very tight, focused, midrange dominant Bergantino AE410. Bumped the low end on the TG500 to 2 O'clock and holy cow was it ever amazing! Punchy, articulate. VERY nice. I would say the issue is not the amp. But you do have a midrange prominent amp and bass in that equation. Perhaps too many mids all the way around. Still, I think you can do much better with different cabs. That's my theory.

Were do you set the mid level and frequency when the bass is at 2 o'clock?

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by KJung

It is not the head Those little Focus cabs are nice, but they are what they are.. small, relatively inexpensive, and relatively midrange voiced. The TH500 puts out BIG low end, which can actually result in LESS perceived low end if you have small cabs that aren't reproducing those frequencies efficiently (or at all).

That being said, just like with the filters on the Markbass heads, there is a LOT of user error with the TH500. The drive control is not a 'distortion control', but more of an 'old school knob' which will roll of low end and top end significantly. If you have that knob up a bit with a small midrangey cab(s), well, you will get nothing but midrange!

Yea, I wasn't expecting much from the Focus cabs, but I thought I would give them a try. I have an Aguilar DB112 being delivered tomorrow. I'm expecting very good things from it.

I understand that the drive knob affects the bass, so I had it dialed down to about 9 o'clock, as was the gain. 'Still no bass on the B string. I tried bumping the bass knob to about 2 o'clock, but then the E string was too thumpy.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Yea, I wasn't expecting much from the Focus cabs, but I thought I would give them a try. I have an Aguilar DB112 being delivered tomorrow. I'm expecting very good things from it.

I understand that the drive knob affects the bass, so I had it dialed down to about 9 o'clock, as was the gain. 'Still no bass on the B string. I tried bumping the bass knob to about 2 o'clock, but then the E string was too thumpy.

You won't have that issue with the DB112. Enjoy!

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Seriously, try 2 O'clock on the bass/low EQ knob. It's not boomy. Just adds a wonderful low-end bump that is very punchy, yet articulate. I think you'll love it.

However, you have to be careful with the mid frequency selector. If the mid frequency is set for low mids (i.e. 7 to 9 o'clock), it gets boomy really fast if the mid level is not cut. If you're going to boost the bass, the low mids must be cut, or the mid frequency set to a higher range.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

Were do you set the mid level and frequency when the bass is at 2 o'clock?

Around noon or 11 o'clock. Don't remember. but drive was down at zero. Gain was maybe 11 oclock? Been a while. But when I bumped the low to 1-2 o'clock, the punch was just awesome. Not too much, not boomy. Just good punchy lows. (Keep in mind, that was with a very punchy, articulate, focused Bergantino AE410 cab)

[Freddels]

I've played a 6 string Pedulla through the TH500 and an Avatar 210neo and the low B was thunderous. If you're not getting the low end, it's from the Focus cabs and not the TH. One of these days I'll be able to afford some nice DB cabs to go along with the amp. :-)

[SilkyStrings]

I think the cab used is a big factor here. I used my TH500 over the weekend twice with a cover band. Guitar Bass drums and 2 vocalists, everything from classic rock to Katy Perry. Last time I used my Accugroove Tri 115 by itself under the TH500. Kept getting comments that I was to quiet. This time a brought an additional Eden 115t. With both cabs I was able to run the amp lower on the gain knob to get less distortion. This head sounds quite different at volume, it does compress noticeably yet in my studio it sounds very clean.
As far as EQ is concerned I actually got good results turning the mid frequency knob to it's lowest setting (7 o'clock) and boosting the mids to around 1 or 2 o'clock. Everything else was flat, Gain varied depending on the tune and Drive at noon. I was using a Sadowsky RV5 with the preamp boosting bass and treble about half way. I found the boosted mids on the amp added a lot of punch and thickened up the tone in a more useful way than boosting the bass on the amp, which seemed to add mud. I even cut the bass knob to 11 o'clock and found the sound still useful, it never sounded thin or 'middy'.
During the gig I remember the moment where I realized the bass sound and 'feel' really did emulate a sealed 10 type cab. I think I am finally getting used to how this little amp works.
I would be very curious how a pair of DB112 would sound, would they be loud enough for me? In the meantime I will be lugging both 15" cabs to every gig.
One other thing, since I work in a cover band I find myself twiddling the drive knob to add/ remove distortion between songs, this results in then adjusting the master to get the volume back to the right point. Not ideal in this type of gig since there is almost no gap between tunes. Kind of wish there was a way to make these alterations without volume changes, but I suppose that is the whole design concept of this amp.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by SilkyStrings

.... I was using a Sadowsky RV5 with the preamp boosting bass and treble about half way.....

Yikes! The Sadowsky Pre boosted half way is a LOT of extra gain/boost to the input of the amp. But if it works, it works. But dayam! I was never able to boost a Sadowsky Preamp that much. 20% at most.

[LowBSix]

I run my TH500 fairly clean and have no compression issues; the input gain between 9 and 11 o'clock and the drive between 10 and 12 o'clock, with passive basses. When the Master/power section is opened up, each bass is represented individually. I prefer to replicate the instrument and not create the same tone with different instruments... Does that make sense?

[SilkyStrings]

Yup I know what you mean. I was boosting bass almost half way on the instrument. This may have contributed to the feeling of compression and likely why I was able to dial the bass knob back on the amp to 11 o'clock and still get beefy low end. Another gig I ran the instrument passive and had to boost bass at the amp to about 1 o'clock. Still some experimenting to do and I have a fdeck pre on the way too.

I know I would get better results with a pair of matched cabs. If I can ever make a decision. I still come away with the impression that this amp sounds better on the gig than in the bedroom, versus my Eden head which sounds great playing solo in the studio but seems to disappear a bit in a live setting. Perhaps this has more to do with the power of that head (300W) versus the 500W Aguilar.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by SilkyStrings

Yup I know what you mean. I was boosting bass almost half way on the instrument. This may have contributed to the feeling of compression and likely why I was able to dial the bass knob back on the amp to 11 o'clock and still get beefy low end. Another gig I ran the instrument passive and had to boost bass at the amp to about 1 o'clock. Still some experimenting to do and I have a fdeck pre on the way too.

I know I would get better results with a pair of matched cabs. If I can ever make a decision. I still come away with the impression that this amp sounds better on the gig than in the bedroom, versus my Eden head which sounds great playing solo in the studio but seems to disappear a bit in a live setting. Perhaps this has more to do with the power of that head (300W) versus the 500W Aguilar.

I have yet to hit any limiting that I can hear on this amp, and have had it cranking with the 'overall level indicators' lighting up. Sometimes, it is very hard to distinguish between a preamp overloading a bit versus a speaker reaching its limits and compressing versus the power amp hitting its limiting circuitry.

One of the things I'm most impressed about this amp is the huge, open low end and lack of any sort of clamping when really driven hard. That said, I'm sure it will limit eventually.

My guess is, hitting the initial gain stage with that massive boost in the low end that the Sadowsky preamp provides when cranked that much was causing the gain stage to overdrive and compress.

[Ewo]

Originally Posted by SilkyStrings

Still some experimenting to do and I have a fdeck pre on the way too.

I've gotten good results putting a Series 3 in front of the amp's input. Found it'll let me put a bit more on the bass EQ of my Carvin SB5K without the tone getting muddy or boomy. Without the Fdeck rolling on the bass EQ seems to get too much subby stuff before I can get as much phat as I'd like.

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Around noon or 11 o'clock. Don't remember. but drive was down at zero. Gain was maybe 11 oclock? Been a while. But when I bumped the low to 1-2 o'clock, the punch was just awesome. Not too much, not boomy. Just good punchy lows. (Keep in mind, that was with a very punchy, articulate, focused Bergantino AE410 cab)

OK, that makes sense. You're using the mid control to actually control the mids.

I found that I could get decent punch with the bass at 2 o'clock (w/ low mids cut), or with the low mids at 2 o'clock (w/ bass cut to 11 o'clock). Boosting both bass and low mids was a no-no.

By the way, were you just experimenting with this set up, or did you actually gig with the drive at zero? The drive is one of the coolest features on this amp. I can't imagine not having some drive dialed in.

[SilkyStrings]

Originally Posted by KJung

I have yet to hit any limiting that I can hear on this amp, and have had it cranking with the 'overall level indicators' lighting up. Sometimes, it is very hard to distinguish between a preamp overloading a bit versus a speaker reaching its limits and compressing versus the power amp hitting its limiting circuitry.

One of the things I'm most impressed about this amp is the huge, open low end and lack of any sort of clamping when really driven hard. That said, I'm sure it will limit eventually.

My guess is, hitting the initial gain stage with that massive boost in the low end that the Sadowsky preamp provides when cranked that much was causing the gain stage to overdrive and compress.

I suspect you are correct.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

OK, that makes sense. You're using the mid control to actually control the mids.

I found that I could get decent punch with the bass at 2 o'clock (w/ low mids cut), or with the low mids at 2 o'clock (w/ bass cut to 11 o'clock). Boosting both bass and low mids was a no-no.

By the way, were you just experimenting with this set up, or did you actually gig with the drive at zero? The drive is one of the coolest features on this amp. I can't imagine not having some drive dialed in.

I was experimenting when a friend brought his TH500 to my home. So it was an intimate setting, but not a gig. Agree that boosting Lows and low mids doesn't work well. Sounds bloated and boomy. So yeah, control the mids, boost the low end a little. Sounded balanced to me and not scooped. Punchy and nice.

[shwashwa]

sorry if this has been addressed, but these threads are so long, i really cant sift through them all, and its just a quick question. would you guys describe the tone hammer as being able to sound "modern and quick" i seem to be reading that it is vintage sounding and tubey? my experience with most pedals like this is its just a matter of getting the eq right and you can make it sound either way? also, do the pedal and amp sound similar?

[NWB]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

sorry if this has been addressed, but these threads are so long, i really cant sift through them all, and its just a quick question. would you guys describe the tone hammer as being able to sound "modern and quick" i seem to be reading that it is vintage sounding and tubey? my experience with most pedals like this is its just a matter of getting the eq right and you can make it sound either way? also, do the pedal and amp sound similar?

Yes, vintage and tubey.

Not "modern and quick".

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by NWB

Yes, vintage and tubey.

Not "modern and quick".

but come to think of it, dont people say that this amp kind of gets the same tone at the big aguilar amp? doesnt patitucci use that amp with his 6 string? also come to think of it, ive seen patitucci use the tone hammer with his 6 string too. we dont call that tone modern? maybe i just have adjective confusion???

[KJung]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

but come to think of it, dont people say that this amp kind of gets the same tone at the big aguilar amp? doesnt patitucci use that amp with his 6 string? also come to think of it, ive seen patitucci use the tone hammer with his 6 string too. we dont call that tone modern? maybe i just have adjective confusion???

I always thought that big Aguilar rig worked against John's tone. Never could figure that out. Of course, a great player sounds great through anything.

The TH500 is capable of a lot of different tones, but its inherent voicing is toward the warm, fat, and just a smidge 'dark'. It is not meant to sound like the very bright, very treble extended GK stuff, for example. Nor is it as even and clean as the Markbass stuff. It is its own thing, and again, reminds me very much of the DB750.

Yes you can turn the gain down, the treble up a bit and it will do a full range tone reasonably well, but IMO you are working a bit against how the head was designed to sound.

I again love that big, big low end, the complex, somewhat rough midrange response, the ability to make it sound quite 'old school' with any cab using the driver control (which cuts deep lows and treble and adds even more midrange 'complexity'), and the generally warm and not sizzly top end. However, I wouldn't call it 'modern or hi fi' myself. IMO!

Edit: I'm also very impressed with the lack of any compression in the low end when really pushed. Big, wide and open through its volume range to my ear.

[IntrepidCellist]

I wouldn't describe the TH500 as "slow" in response feel. It's very up-front and punchy.