All Genz Benz products on "standby" by Fender ??

[chuck3]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 in that Genz REALLY made use of Talkbass as a marketing tool (nothing wrong with that). They provided quite a few TBer's with free gear, and their reps were on this site literally daily to promote the brand. Again, smart move for a small division of a larger company with limited marketing funds.

As a result, the brand IMO seems MUCH bigger than it is to TBer's. Again, nothing wrong with that, and I thought is was a masterful use of 'social media'. I don't define this as 'hype' at all. Getting 'opinion leaders' and 'early adoptors' on board through social media is a GREAT way to grow a brand.

Also, there were many posts by the Genz guys in the past about how impressed they were that their parent company let them do business pretty much as if they were still a 'company' and not a brand'. This is unusual, and it obviously resulted in some very good products and service. That has been going on for quite a few years since they were acquired by the parent company that was then acquired by Fender (I believe).

Given the big story about Fender trying to go public (and failing horribly) in the NY Times a few months ago, it would not surprise me if they are trying to get their ducks in a row for another try, which typically means (based on my day gig of being involved in some of these issues), shedding non-core businesses and integrating as much of the core business under the primary brand (Fender) as they can.

Even if a small brand is highly profitable within the holding company, it still may be 'more trouble than it is worth' in the big picture, especially if a company is looking to do an initial public offering. Once you have stock holders looking at your business, EVERYTHING changes.

I don't care as much about the brand as the people, who are the best of the best in my experience. I hope they all land on their feet. Tough times out there in the music industry, whether you are a player, retailer, or manufacturer.

good post Ken.

the only silver lining is that I have so freakin' *much* Genz Benz gear of all types that I feel I unknowingly prepared for the apocalypse ...

[Big Brother]

What a win for the consumer. Am I alone in thinking that it is such a hassle having to always choose between different brands, now we can skip that time-waster and just pick out the Fender product that suits us best.

With the shackles of competition lifted, they can be free to innovate for the consumer too. Look at all the progress we made under Ma Bell for instance, we went from the left model to the right model in just 40 scant years:

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

What a win for the consumer. Am I alone in thinking that it is such a hassle having to always choose between different brands, now we can skip that time-waster and just pick out the Fender product that suits us best.

With the shackles of competition lifted, they can be free to innovate for the consumer too. Look at all the progress we made under Ma Bell for instance, we went from the left model to the right model in just 40 scant years:

Nah. There are always wonderful small companies doing wonderful things. That will always be the case. Remember, Fender started out in a garage way back when. A few very successful small companies eventually become big, and to your point, non-innovative. There are ALWAYS small designers, builders, etc. ready to fill the niche for those who want a super high quality product with all the latest design features. Look at all the amazing boutique all tube amps on the market at the moment. There must be a dozen small companies (or more) making those products.

TecAmp, Aguilar, Markbass, Glockenklang, Bergantino, Baer, and probably 20 more companies that I haven't heard of are all out there and ready to fill any profitable niche that exists.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by KJung

Nah. There are always wonderful small companies doing wonderful things. That will always be the case. Remember, Fender started out in a garage way back when. A few very successful small companies eventually become big, and to your point, non-innovative. There are ALWAYS small designers, builders, etc. ready to fill the niche for those who want a super high quality product with all the latest design features. Look at all the amazing boutique all tube amps on the market at the moment. There must be a dozen small companies (or more) making those products.

TecAmp, Aguilar, Markbass, Glockenklang, Bergantino, Baer, and probably 20 more companies that I haven't heard of are all out there and ready to fill any profitable niche that exists.

My point was not about 'big business,' it is about controlling or dismantling the competition instead of besting them as the free market system intended. A patent troll can destroy free-enterprise competitive and innovation with a 3 man office, this is not a political rant I got from my radio.

Marketplace Darwinism seldom creates a win for the consumer or for business in general. It is the nasty side effect of the free enterprise model, with the freedom to create comes the freedom to destroy.

I really don't see how to spin this into a positive thing.

[svtb15]

It is a very personal thing... as you said.. Certain things and details are private info... that i feel is best between myself and the people that choose to work with me...
You know how rumors and stories can spread... lol
So i NEVER discuss that end of the business..
But i am proud to use this gear and it has NEVER failed me in heat , cold, travels, fly dates, bumps, drops, loud ,220V ,110V 50Hz,60 Hz, soft gigs etc.... Probably the most bullet proof gear that i have used in about 40 years of gigging. yeah im old! But i still have my hair...

However i did speak with Jeff last week and he sounded in good spirits.

Originally Posted by dukeorock

I've been a Genz endorser for a couple years...Kirk's deal may be different, but for me, there were a couple conversations, a handshake, and they had a full rig shipped to my house within a week. Endorsements are usually more about personal relationships than paper, in my experience

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by willsellout

Indeed. Apparently Fender is shutting down everyone. I heard that they bought out Thunderfunk just to shut it down.

I've heard from a guy which knows a guy who knows really well a man who knows a guy within Fender that Fender has it, they shut down Rush, Rickenbacker, GB AND Burger King!!!

[Duke21]

Also, it was Fender who shut down Seinfeld as the bass line for Seinfeld was not played on a p bass.

[Mastermold]

Originally Posted by wvbass

Aside from not being at NAMM, I'm not sure there is any new news. But...Genz is loved here. Why? Great customer support. Well-tested, highly reliable products. A steady stream of new products. Continuous improvement of existing products. All of this drives expense. Maybe, if an organizational change is happening, it is because they aren't successful enough as a company. Maybe Genz needs a little of what we hate Fender for doing - resting on their laurels and raking in the dollars by continuing to sell the same designs for which they have long since paid for the R&D.

Don't forget "best micro bass amps".

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by Duke21

Also, it was Fender who shut down Seinfeld as the bass line for Seinfeld was not played on a p bass.

Fortunately his comedy will still live on as he is getting no serious competition here...

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

My point was not about 'big business,' it is about controlling or dismantling the competition instead of besting them as the free market system intended. A patent troll can destroy free-enterprise competitive and innovation with a 3 man office, this is not a political rant I got from my radio.

Marketplace Darwinism seldom creates a win for the consumer or for business in general. It is the nasty side effect of the free enterprise model, with the freedom to create comes the freedom to destroy.

I really don't see how to spin this into a positive thing.

Such misplaced drama. Fender didn't drive it's competitors out of business. Rather, Genzler willingly sold his company in 2003 Kaman, and Kaman sold itself a few years later.

Positive spin? The demise of Tobias gave us MTD. The sale of Fender gave us G&L and Musicman. The sale of Lakland will soon give us DLB. If Fender folds GB, expect to see Genzler reenter the market when his non-compete expires.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by JB36

Which is good Fender should stay is this niche and let Genz do what they do.

Who's to say that they won't? I don't think anything is official yet, despite all the angst you read in this thread from the GB lovers. As long as Fender lets the GB guys do their thing with micro bass amps, but changes the names to Fender, I don't see a problem. A rose by any other name ?

[BuffaloBob4343]

Originally Posted by Bassmanbob

But if they destroy Genz Benz, I will purposefully never buy anything Fender for life.

^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[rapidfirerob]

I'm happy to see that GB is still alive. My main concern is with speedy and excellent service. It took a week for me to get a response from my email to GB, now Fender techs, though I was pleased with the response. It was great getting a response from Jeff himself, but things change. I will wait and see what happens. I still love my Shuttle.

[sevdog]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Such misplaced drama. Fender didn't drive it's competitors out of business. Rather, Genzler willingly sold his company in 2003 Kaman, and Kaman sold itself a few years later.

Eeek, I got lots of problems with that type of thinking but those kinds of conversations are better left to political websites, which I choose to avoid to keep my blood pressure down...reading this thread ain't really helping so I'm going to go read about gear and music.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by sevdog

Eeek, I got lots of problems with that type of thinking but those kinds of conversations are better left to political websites, which I choose to avoid to keep my blood pressure down...reading this thread ain't really helping so I'm going to go read about gear and music.

Huh? Takes too much venom out of the fangs to assume that Jeff willingly sold his company???

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Such misplaced drama. Fender didn't drive it's competitors out of business. Rather, Genzler willingly sold his company in 2003 Kaman, and Kaman sold itself a few years later.

Positive spin? The demise of Tobias gave us MTD. The sale of Fender gave us G&L and Musicman. The sale of Lakland will soon give us DLB. If Fender folds GB, expect to see Genzler reenter the market when his non-compete expires.

That's the inductive fallacy of the unrepresentative sample. It means you are trying to offer a single counter example to support a grand conclusion. I can offer a counter list that is much, much larger.

I am just trying to make a point that this kind of business behavior stifles innovation and consumer choice, it is not a good thing as some seem to think. They bought a superior product and took it off the shelf to promote their own, inferior product. This action is not done to bring about imaginative company in the future that will make things all better again. It was done to limit consumer access, your access, to a superior product. Spin away.

Sorry that it seemed to elicit such an emotional reaction from you that you had to go off on some weird drama tangent. My intent was to discuss that this particular business tactic is not a healthy one for free enterprise.

It is entirely possible that there are conversations and topics on the inerrnets that don't revolve around people's AM radio programs.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

That's the inductive fallacy of the unrepresentative sample. It means you are trying to offer a single counter example to support a grand conclusion. I can offer a counter list that is much, much larger.

I am just trying to make a point that this kind of business behavior stifles innovation and consumer choice, it is not a good thing as some seem to think. They bought a superior product and took it off the shelf to promote their own, inferior product. This action is not done to bring about imaginative company in the future that will make things all better again. It was done to limit consumer access, your access, to a superior product. Spin away.

Sorry that it seemed to elicit such an emotional reaction from you that you had to go off on some weird drama tangent. My intent was to discuss that this particular business tactic is not a healthy one for free enterprise.

It is entirely possible that there are conversations and topics on the inerrnets that don't revolve around people's AM radio programs.

I also pretty much disagree with what you are saying in general, but that is another discussion not appropriate for TB.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

That's the inductive fallacy of the unrepresentative sample. It means you are trying to offer a single counter example to support a grand conclusion. I can offer a counter list that is much, much larger.

I am just trying to make a point that this kind of business behavior stifles innovation and consumer choice, it is not a good thing as some seem to think. They bought a superior product and took it off the shelf to promote their own, inferior product. This action is not done to bring about imaginative company in the future that will make things all better again. It was done to limit consumer access, your access, to a superior product. Spin away.

Sorry that it seemed to elicit such an emotional reaction from you that you had to go off on some weird drama tangent. My intent was to discuss that this particular business tactic is not a healthy one for free enterprise.

It is entirely possible that there are conversations and topics on the inerrnets that don't revolve around people's AM radio programs.

You're losing me on the AM radio comment........

There are still dozens and dozens of choices in the bass amp market. From mass produced to boutique the choices are unlimited. And the behavior that you bemoan in your post was actually on the part of Genzler himself, since he chose to sell his company. Remember, he actually sold it back in 2003, and that fact hasn't limited our access to his products all these years.

Genzler sold his company because it had some financial benefit to him. The same could be said of Kaman. It is free enterprise at it's best, not a restriction of it.

And, friend, I offered multiple examples, not a single one....fallacy or not......

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by sevdog

Eeek, I got lots of problems with that type of thinking but those kinds of conversations are better left to political websites, which I choose to avoid to keep my blood pressure down...reading this thread ain't really helping so I'm going to go read about gear and music.

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Huh? Takes too much venom out of the fangs to assume that Jeff willingly sold his company???

Sevdog I should have addressed the AM radio political comments to you, you are the one trying to fit a pretty straightforward point into a condescending political mold.

All talk about what free enterprise can do better is commie-treason, right? Actually I am a marketer, I promote several people you know and my collective clients have over a billion dollars in lifetime earnings. Point is, I am not living in a VW bus next to the organic fuel co-op. Maybe if you check your assumptions, your blood pressure will respond in kind.

Guy, I understand your point but when you step back and see the big picture, this trend is harmful to innovation and consumer choice in the long run. It is worth noting and should not be rewarded. Which is the free enterprise response...

I think the existence of this thread and the anger at being denied choice corroborates my point about that in real world terms.

[sevdog]

Huh? I actually agree with just about everything you're saying.

I don't see where I'm trying ot fit anything anywhere. I basically said, I disagree with the thinking in Guy's comment and don't want to get into it with anybody on TB. That's all. Now, I'm really ignoring this thread.