All Genz Benz products on "standby" by Fender ??

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

The point was that Fender is essentially withholding a certain product from the market to promote competing products.

I missed in this thread where it was verified that Fender was shuttering GB. Could you point it out to me?

I'm trying to assume that your an intelligent person making a rational argument. Your entire premise, however, is based on an event that has not happened, making that assumption virtually impossible.

[lomo]

[quote=jnewmark;13786337]So what was Genzler supposed to do back then in 2003 ? QUOTE]

He sold for a profit and that's fine and happens all the time. Problems arise when some entities get so big that they can stifle competition by means other than building a better product or a similar quality product that sells for less, ie by buying and dismantling or otherwise sabotaging competitors. This happens frequently as well, to the detriment of us all. Cars that run on alternative fuel were not invented recently, but large auto makers and the oil industry were certainly not scurrying to promote them until they "had" to. I'm sure a lot of patents and small companies were bought and intentionally left to languish in that area. I don't know what's up with GB, but IF it is stifled simply in order not to compete with other lines sold by the parent co. that are more profitable but somehow inferior, that cannot be good for the community as a whole, even though at this time it's clear that a myriad of good choices remain. The fact that other choices remain and that the market is healthy now in no way makes the action good or indifferent IMHO; it simply reduces its' impact.

[sevdog]

[quote=lomo;13786425]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

So what was Genzler supposed to do back then in 2003 ?

He sold for a profit and that's fine and happens all the time. Problems arise when some entities get so big that they can stifle competition by means other than building a better product or a similar quality product that sells for less, ie by buying and dismantling or otherwise sabotaging competitors. This happens frequently as well, to the detriment of us all. Cars that run on alternative fuel were not invented recently, but large auto makers and the oil industry were certainly not scurrying to promote them until they "had" to. I'm sure a lot of patents and small companies were bought and intentionally left to languish in that area. I don't know what's up with GB, but IF it is stifled simply in order not to compete with other lines sold by the parent co. that are more profitable but somehow inferior, that cannot be good for the community as a whole, even though at this time it's clear that a myriad of good choices remain. The fact that other choices remain and that the market is healthy now in no way makes the action good or indifferent IMHO; it simply reduces its' impact.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

....why do I keep looking at this thread?

[wvbass]

Many posts ago, I believe it was reported that the Genz guys were taking somewhat broader roles at Fender, and that the Genz brand wasn't going anywhere. To me, this is potentially positive news, as Fender has had several near-miss bass amps, and the Genz guys could help revive some of these designs.

And why do threads like this always devolve into some a-hole deciding that he must take on all comers that dare to disagree with him? It makes TB hard to bear sometimes, and usually leads to the end of the thread.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

If GB was shuttered (which is was NOT) you would be limited to the following:

GK
Warwick
Mesa
Acoustic
EA
Aguilar
Ashdown
MarkBass
TechAmp
Ampeg
Fender
Bugera
Peavey
Orange
Randall
Baer
Marshall
Carvin
Hartke
Kustom
Trace Elliot
Phil Jones
Glockenklang
EBS
Eden
TC
Tech 21

....and only a couple of dozen other boutique manufacturers that I don't know about. The slide into a virtual monopoly has clearly begun!!!!!

I could counter with a list of examples of companies and products that were either killed or muted by larger companies. If I did that though, it would be a logical fallacy and thus a huge waste of time.

Do you ever wonder what Fender's companies could do if they were truly independent and real, and not just a headless factory stamping out products for Fender?

[jnewmark]

[quote=lomo;13786425]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

So what was Genzler supposed to do back then in 2003 ? QUOTE]

He sold for a profit and that's fine and happens all the time. Problems arise when some entities get so big that they can stifle competition by means other than building a better product or a similar quality product that sells for less, ie by buying and dismantling or otherwise sabotaging competitors. This happens frequently as well, to the detriment of us all. Cars that run on alternative fuel were not invented recently, but large auto makers and the oil industry were certainly not scurrying to promote them until they "had" to. I'm sure a lot of patents and small companies were bought and intentionally left to languish in that area. I don't know what's up with GB, but IF it is stifled simply in order not to compete with other lines sold by the parent co. that are more profitable but somehow inferior, that cannot be good for the community as a whole, even though at this time it's clear that a myriad of good choices remain. The fact that other choices remain and that the market is healthy now in no way makes the action good or indifferent IMHO; it simply reduces its' impact.

Didn't Kaman do the same thing, amassing a bunch of music companies, then sold it to Fender for a profit ? Can we look on the bright side here until something is OFFICIALLY announced ? Maybe Fender has all the intentions of keeping Genz Benz in play. Instead , we are all ready to bash Fender for doing something they have'nt done yet !

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

I could counter with a list of examples of companies and products that were either killed or muted by larger companies. If I did that though, it would be a logical fallacy and thus a huge waste of time.

Do you ever wonder what Fender's companies could do if they were truly independent and real, and not just a headless factory stamping out products for Fender?

Companies fail all the time. More than one of the companies on my list was "killed" then resurrected. And, honestly, there's so much innovation in the bass world that I really don't see a need to fantasize about what might have been. Finally, I look at the brands that have flourished under Fender's wing and realize I'm debating a non-issue.

[wvbass]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

Do you ever wonder what Fender's companies could do if they were truly independent and real, and not just a headless factory stamping out products for Fender?

We don't have to wonder. That list you quoted contains several examples of what companies that don't get bought by Fender can do.

Everyone here understands your point, and -agree or disagree- it is a valid point. Nothing is to be gained by continuing the argument.

[Big Brother]

I quit.

It's OK to strong-arm consumer choice, because there are other companies. Brilliant...

Like I said before, "Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western!"

Enjoy your choices.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

Seems you argued the same premise with me, change your mind?

It seems to be valid assumption though, the ample testimony is one thing but the very odd lack of a response for a very social media and TB aware community is telling a story all by itself...

Where is GB to put this fire out? A social media and TB aware company isn't aware of this thread or something?

Sometimes, my 5 year old gets hysterical over the most irrational things. I can try to convince her that there is nothing to be hysterical about and prove that nothing is wrong. I have found, however, that it's better to ignore her rather than feed the issue.

If FMIC jumped in here right now and assure the masses, I'm sure many of you would just call them liars and continue the witch hunt. What's the point?

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

GK
Warwick
Mesa
Acoustic
EA
Aguilar
Ashdown
MarkBass
TechAmp
Ampeg
Fender
Bugera
Peavey
Orange
Randall
Baer
Marshall
Carvin
Hartke
Kustom
Trace Elliot
Phil Jones
Glockenklang
EBS
Eden
TC
Tech 21

Originally Posted by Big Brother

Enjoy your choices.

Will do.

[Not yet]

[quote=sevdog;13786435]

Originally Posted by lomo

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

....why do I keep looking at this thread?

My guess is like me you waiting for one fact to enter the mix

[60bass]

Originally Posted by wvbass

and why do threads like this always devolve into some a-hole deciding that he must take on all comers that dare to disagree with him?

Because some people will go on and on with their point, whether they are right or wrong. If anyone disagrees, they start browbeating them because they have a differing opinion than theirs. These type of conversations, if you can call them that, need to be moved to PM's.

Originally Posted by wvbass

It makes TB hard to bear sometimes, and usually leads to the end of the thread.

+1 I've seen too many threads closed or deleted due to a few people who won't just agree to disagree.

Keep Low

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Sometimes, my 5 year old gets hysterical over the most irrational things. I can try to convince her that there is nothing to be hysterical about and prove that nothing is wrong. I have found, however, that it's better to ignore her rather than feed the issue.

Congratulations for pulling your internet man-card out over an economics argument.

You stand tall.

[Febs]

When did GB introduce the Shuttle series?

[TigerInATrance]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Sometimes, my 5 year old gets hysterical over the most irrational things. I can try to convince her that there is nothing to be hysterical about and prove that nothing is wrong. I have found, however, that it's better to ignore her rather than feed the issue.

If FMIC jumped in here right now and assure the masses, I'm sure many of you would just call them liars and continue the witch hunt. What's the point?

Because they have a history of lying in instances exactly like this one. I remember when they bought Guild a bunch of years ago while I was with Guitar Center. The Guild Rep came by for the first couple months and then one afternoon, the same Guild rep that I had been dealing with over the course of my tenure was replaced by a shiny new Fender rep, who came in touting the money they were going to pour into Guild to return it to glory in an effort to compete with Gibson...

Just 2 months later I called the rep to inquire about a Guild S-100 order and got told that Guild electric guitars will no longer be available, but that DeArmond reissues (made overseas) were going to be available shortly.

And where exactly is Guild now???

[adivin]

Some people are underestimating the power of supply and demand. If there is truly a demand for GB type products, the Law of Supply and Demand says that there will be a race to fulfill that demand (independent of brand name) and bring the product to market. If Fender sees the demand, I predict Fender will be willing to supply it. I sense they saw this, so they bought the innovation.

There was an apparent demand for a modern, feature rich 100w all tube head. Now we have the Fender 100t, auto biasing, 25w, and silent mode, 2, 4, 8 ohm switchable, two channel amp. Ampeg saw this and is coming out with the VB4. If demand is there and recognized, you will see innovation, and hopefully profit.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by TigerInATrance

And where exactly is Guild now???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Guitar_Company

They have a nice website, too.

[wvbass]

Originally Posted by TigerInATrance

And where exactly is Guild now???

Confused. ???

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/guild

[guy n. cognito]

www.guildguitars.com