All Genz Benz products on "standby" by Fender ??

[AllFourths]

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

just wondering.. as this may shed some light... what was the Genz Benz presence @ NAMM?
any new products?

They weren't there at all.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

It's just corporate policy.....

+1. It's also just basic professionalism.

[MichaelVee]

It's fairly obvious that there's been a pretty significant shift in the way Genz is doing business as a subsidiary of the Fender corporation.

This can be discussed ad infinitum, but Fender will do things they way they will. All corporations tell their employees how to do things.

In the past, Genz employees- largely Andy and Roger - were free to post and contribute and support and interchange on Talkbass. That's changed somewhat. So yes, this is not a good thing in our minds as the group of the world's bass players who hang out here on Talkbass. We want our companies to talk with us here, and hang out with us also.

I look at Genz as pushing out new product every single year for the past four or five years at NAMM, and the fact that they they didn't do it this year as evidence that the company is being controlled by Fender who is dictating what happens. I've been on record as saying that maybe the company should not change the products up as often as they did, so that makes me feel somewhat hypocritical. I wanted Genz to come out with great designs and then stick with them for a couple of years at least, not keep saying, we have something better this year, buy it. I kind of felt Genz was churning us bass players for a couple years in there.

But it does depend on one's perspective: are they churning product to boost sales, or are they actually trying to innovate and keep bringing the best product to market? I'm not sure, but I think it was more Andy and the engineers saying to Jeff and Roger, hey, we can make a better product, let's get it in production and get ahead of the competition. I really can see it both ways. Genz has been trying to play the tech angles and get ahead of the market the best that they could.

I have talked with Jeff Genzler on the phone and via email on several occasions in the past. I loved that about Genz, and I have personally found out that that is not possible anymore.

I just bought a Genz 6.2-12T combo in December, and I sold off the other Genz gear I had. I find this combo to be another work of art, it's a very successful design.

Gosh, I'm with a lot of the newly doubting people in this thread. I really think that there is a strong likelihood that Fender could ruin this brand with its heavy-handed corporate stategies. I do not trust corporations in general, nor should any of you. They don't exist to serve our best interest as regular, working, tax-paying people. They exist to maximize their own profits and dividends. This is mainly for the sake of the hordes of foreign investors and mutual funds who buy into the stock of a company. Maybe someone can post some statistics about Fender's stockholders. I don't have that at this posting.

I don't know how many of you guys and girls have worked for corporations, but I have done it, for many years in the past, and they are what they are.

Until Fender proves that this is going to be a beneficial relationship with Genz, we'd all be well-advised to watch closely and suspect Fender. Not the Genz guys. They are just doing the best they can do.

I don't want Fender to run Genz into the ground. Time will tell if they do.

[AllFourths]

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

It's fairly obvious that there's been a pretty significant shift in the way Genz is doing business as a subsidiary of the Fender corporation.

This can be discussed ad infinitum, but Fender will do things they way they will. All corporations tell their employees how to do things.

In the past, Genz employees- largely Andy and Roger - were free to post and contribute and support and interchange on Talkbass. That's changed somewhat. So yes, this is not a good thing in our minds as the group of the world's bass players who hang out here on Talkbass. We want our companies to talk with us here, and hang out with us also.

I look at Genz as pushing out new product every single year for the past four or five years at NAMM, and the fact that they they didn't do it this year as evidence that the company is being controlled by Fender who is dictating what happens. I've been on record as saying that maybe the company should not change the products up as often as they did, so that makes me feel somewhat hypocritical. I wanted Genz to come out with great designs and then stick with them for a couple of years at least, not keep saying, we have something better this year, buy it. I kind of felt Genz was churning us bass players for a couple years in there.

But it does depend on one's perspective: are they churning product to boost sales, or are they actually trying to innovate and keep bringing the best product to market? I'm not sure, but I think it was more Andy and the engineers saying to Jeff and Roger, hey, we can make a better product, let's get it in production and get ahead of the competition. I really can see it both ways. Genz has been trying to play the tech angles and get ahead of the market the best that they could.

I have talked with Jeff Genzler on the phone and via email on several occasions in the past. I loved that about Genz, and I have personally found out that that is not possible anymore.

I just bought a Genz 6.2-12T combo in December, and I sold off the other Genz gear I had. I find this combo to be another work of art, it's a very successful design.

Gosh, I'm with a lot of the newly doubting people in this thread. I really think that there is a strong likelihood that Fender could ruin this brand with its heavy-handed corporate stategies. I do not trust corporations in general, nor should any of you. They don't exist to serve our best interest as regular, working, tax-paying people. They exist to maximize their own profits and dividends. This is mainly for the sake of the hordes of foreign investors and mutual funds who buy into the stock of a company. Maybe someone can post some statistics about Fender's stockholders. I don't have that at this posting.

I don't know how many of you guys and girls have worked for corporations, but I have done it, for many years in the past, and they are what they are.

Until Fender proves that this is going to be a beneficial relationship with Genz, we'd all be well-advised to watch closely and suspect Fender. Not the Genz guys. They are just doing the best they can do.

I don't want Fender to run Genz into the ground. Time will tell if they do.

Great input.

The real question then is when do we stop trusting Genz Benz as the quality purchase it has been for so long? When will we begin seeing a decline in quality, dependability, sound, etc. That's a scary thing to think about.

I was planning on picking up a ShuttleMAX 12.2 in the next couple of weeks. Am I about to buy one of the last great masterpieces? Hmm...

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by fdeck

+1. It's also just basic professionalism.

And black helicopters...

[maurilio]

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

…...


Gosh, I'm with a lot of the newly doubting people in this thread. I really think that there is a strong likelihood that Fender could ruin this brand with its heavy-handed corporate stategies. I do not trust corporations in general, nor should any of you. They don't exist to serve our best interest as regular, working, tax-paying people. They exist to maximize their own profits and dividends. This is mainly for the sake of the hordes of foreign investors and mutual funds who buy into the stock of a company. Maybe someone can post some statistics about Fender's stockholders. I don't have that at this posting.

I don't know how many of you guys and girls have worked for corporations, but I have done it, for many years in the past, and they are what they are.

Until Fender proves that this is going to be a beneficial relationship with Genz, we'd all be well-advised to watch closely and suspect Fender. Not the Genz guys. They are just doing the best they can do.

I don't want Fender to run Genz into the ground. Time will tell if they do.

+1

[seanm]

Originally Posted by nostatic

And black helicopters...

In Canada we are more safety conscious, so all of our black helicopters are painted bright orange.

[svtb15]

Here is your Black Helicopter
Black Helicopters over Miami http://connect.freedomworks.org/news...=node%2F345967

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

I do not trust corporations in general, nor should any of you. They don't exist to serve our best interest as regular, working, tax-paying people. They exist to maximize their own profits and dividends.

What a patently silly comment. Virtually all privately-owned and publicly-owned companies are corporations. Almost all non-government jobs are provided by corporations. Genz-Benz is or was a corporation. In the case of working people, the interest corporations serve is compensation for the service of their employees. That gives you the money you need to pay your rent/mortgage and buy the food you eat and clothes you wear.

You are correct in that they exist to maximize the wealth of their shareholders. The way to get in on that is to become a shareholder. It's a very simple matter. You call your discount broker and order up the stock. Then you reap in your share of the profits, if there are any. Here in America, we call it capitalism - it's what made us the most powerful country in the world.

[rapidfirerob]

Does that mean corporations are benevolent enterprises only looking out for the good of its employees and the citizens at large? Mostly not.

[lookiel]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Here in America, we call it capitalism - it's what made us the most powerful country in the world.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by lookiel

OK, after Canada.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by rapidfirerob

Does that mean corporations are benevolent enterprises only looking out for the good of its employees and the citizens at large? Mostly not.

No. But it also doesn't mean that all corporations are the epitome of evil, as some want to believe. There are plenty of large corporations out there with happy employees.

[mjac28]

Gordon Gekko: The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.

[OldogNewTrick]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 in that Genz REALLY made use of Talkbass as a marketing tool (nothing wrong with that). .....

As a result, the brand IMO seems MUCH bigger than it is to TBer's. Again, nothing wrong with that, and I thought is was a masterful use of 'social media'. I don't define this as 'hype' at all. Getting 'opinion leaders' and 'early adoptors' on board through social media is a GREAT way to grow a brand.

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

It's fairly obvious that there's been a pretty significant shift in the way Genz is doing business as a subsidiary of the Fender corporation.

This can be discussed ad infinitum, but Fender will do things they way they will. All corporations tell their employees how to do things.

In the past, Genz employees- largely Andy and Roger - were free to post and contribute and support and interchange on Talkbass. That's changed somewhat. So yes, this is not a good thing in our minds as the group of the world's bass players who hang out here on Talkbass. We want our companies to talk with us here, and hang out with us also.

The fact that Andy and Roger did* post so frequently made existing and potential owners of Genz-Benz products (customers) feel welcome, appreciated and taken good care of.

*did <=> wether they were free to frequently contribute in order to promote a product they are proud of or, wether they were required to do so as part of their job discription to work TB as part of a (viral) marketing stategy, is not known....

Be that as it may, personally I find it totally lame that they do not come out and post something to the effect, sorry, things (duties/circumstances/corporate policies) have changed and we won't be able to continue contributing as we have been before....

We are all, well, most of you anyways, grownups and everybody would have understood and carried on.

Sorry, on personal level, just lame....

P.S. Worse, to me, the lack of response points more towards the use of TB as markteing tool, versus genuine desire to provide informal, non-commercial after-sales customer care on a interest-focussed social media forum site....

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by OldogNewTrick

The fact that Andy and Roger did* post so frequently made existing and potential owners of Genz-Benz products (customers) feel welcome, appreciated and taken good care of.

*did <=> wether they were free to frequently contribute in order to promote a product they are proud of or, wether they were required to do so as part of their job discription to work TB as part of a (viral) marketing stategy, is not known....

Be that as it may, personally I find it totally lame that they do not come out and post something to the effect, sorry, things (duties/circumstances/corporate policies) have changed and we won't be able to continue contributing as we have been before....

We are all, well, most of you anyways, grownups and everybody would have understood and carried on.

Sorry, on personal level, just lame....

P.S. Worse, to me, the lack of response points more towards the use of TB as markteing tool, versus genuine desire to provide informal, non-commercial after-sales customer care on a interest-focussed social media forum site....

Unless they are forbidden from making any statements at all period and irregardless of their intentions they still made customers feel good and their frequent posts were helpful to current and potential Genz customers. If your new boss tells you to keep your mouth shut you keep it shut and in this economy that would be wise.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

I don't want Fender to run Genz into the ground. Time will tell if they do.

Actually, I'm more worried about this thread, than I am about Fender.

In the last few days, I've repeatedly seen it stated as a bald fact that Genz has been shut down by Fender. This was in threads where people were considering purchasing Genz products, and being told that it was a bad idea.

The supposed proof? This thread. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy...

If you truly love Genz, and if Fender is thinking about ditching the line, what's needed is a positive swell of support for G B products. Even evil corporations love profits.

[David281189]

just becasue genz benz has not attended winter namm 2013 doesn't mean they are going to get shut down.
sadowsky hasn't attended this year's namm and the two years before they were also absent and they are doing very well.
FMIC are just restructuring a lot of things since 2008 and they have improved their quality and a lot of things are going in the right direction.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by David281189

just becasue genz benz has not attended winter namm 2013 doesn't mean they are going to get shut down.
sadowsky hasn't attended this year's namm and the two years before they were also absent and they are doing very well.
FMIC are just restructuring a lot of things since 2008 and they have improved their quality and a lot of things are going in the right direction.

aaarghhh....

Genz Benz is a brand, not a company. Sadowsky is a company. Many companies do not attend NAMM. It is HIGHLY unusual for the company (Fender) to attend NAMM and not include one of their brands. Very different thing.

What this means, no one exactly knows.

[TigerInATrance]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Here in America, we call it capitalism - it's what made us the most powerful country in the world.

Actually, capitalism had nothing to do with it. Our natural resources allowed us to build national wealth, which allowed us to spend rediculous amounts of cash raising, maintaining, and expanding the military industrial complex for the last 75 years. This has allowed us to exert influence on the rest of the world while giving us the military power to press those of differing opinion back into line.

The only hand capitalism has in that is providing the tax dollars to fund ever expanding war machine.

That is, however, immaterial to the discussion at hand, except to say that capitalism in general, and the corporate way of life as it currently exists, is at odds with the best interests of the consumer at large.