All-Tube Power Amp? (sans pre-amp)

hotsnake · #1 02-28-2011, 12:35 AM

Interested in what's out there as far as all tube power amplifiers are concerned. My guitarist has a 120 watt peavey classic all tube that just destroys me! Not only do I want to keep up, i've been wanting to send my Sunn Coliseum and Concert Bass through some tubes to get that TONE. Should I just build one? Slave a tube head bypassing the preamp? Any suggestions?

Sartori · #2 02-28-2011, 04:15 AM

There are a couple. Most aren't cheap.

You may as well just get a tube head and bypass the pre, as tube power amps tend be the same size as regular tube heads.

MuzikMan · #3 02-28-2011, 06:03 AM

How about a Peavey 120/120 of your own?

http://peaveyguitar.net/peavey-class...ower-amp/17391

coreyfyfe · #4 02-28-2011, 07:18 AM

Mesa makes/made a few, peavey, I think carvin makes one, and then there's always the aguilar DB728...

**SoComSurfing** · #5 02-28-2011, 07:22 AM

I hear this one is really easy to use.

jimbilly · #6 02-28-2011, 10:49 AM

You should be able to use any tube amp that has an effects loop by running your bass preamp into the effects return. Something like a 5150 head or Triple Rec would do it, but a used mesa 400+ or Ampeg SVT CL isn't all that horribly expensive, - given that your guitar player would have a hard time hearing himself over your bass if you had one of those through a big cabinet it might be worth it. Yeah, I think if I were you I'd look at some all tube heads, even an Ampeg V4 might be as loud as you need through an 8x10 or a 2x15, those V-4s are generally $600-$800-ish used, and sound fantastic.
Btw; what are you using for a cabinet?

christw · #7 02-28-2011, 11:18 AM

Ampeg made an SVT power amp. However, a good power amp (SS or tube) is only going to reproduce what you plug into it but louder. If you want "tube tone" then buy a tube preamp into a SS power amp.

However, watts might not be the answer. What cab(s) are you running? Adding a cab is a lot cheaper and easier way to get more volume when you can/

MuzikMan · #8 02-28-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

Ampeg made an SVT power amp. However, a good power amp (SS or tube) is only going to reproduce what you plug into it but louder. If you want "tube tone" then buy a tube preamp into a SS power amp.

However, watts might not be the answer. What cab(s) are you running? Adding a cab is a lot cheaper and easier way to get more volume when you can/

That's funny, most people say that it's the power tubes that give you that tube tone.

hotsnake · #9 02-28-2011, 01:57 PM

Great responses! Couple of questions:

1) Do individual tube heads have specific characteristics to them? For example, what would be the difference between running one of my SS heads through a 100 watt marshall vs. a 100 watt ampeg? I seem to be getting conflicting stories as to where that "tube tone" comes from. Does the characteristic of the power section matter or is it all in the pre-amp?

2) Is that Peavey Classic 120/120 an active sale? I filled out the form on the site but couldn't find a date for the listing. I hope it is! Exactly what i'm looking for!

regarding my cab setup I'm currently using an Ampeg V4 4x12 rated @ 8 ohms, 200 watts - it's one of those big fridge style 4x12s with the tilt-bar. I use this cab paired with a Sunn Coliseum 300 for all my distortion + effects - mid range + high end tones

this setup is A/B'd with an Ampeg 810AV - 800 watts @ 4 ohms mono or 400/channel @ 8 ohms each. I run a Sunn Concert into this for my clean low end tone.

What i'm aiming for is some more UMPH out of the clean setup while boosting the distortion setup slightly. 120 watts of Coliseum into the 4x12 is enough to *just about* keep up on the midrange and high end, but 150 watts of Sunn Concert into the 8x10 leaves me wanting some more boom in the low end.

Yes I have considered getting a GK 1001Rb or some such amp for my low end clean tones but I really love that Sunn Concert tone, just want it to be a bit louder!

coreyfyfe · #10 02-28-2011, 02:16 PM

Yes, different heads will have different inherent characteristics, as well as pre and power amps. Some are designed to be more transparent than others. Where the tube tone comes from depends on who you ask, I say it's the whole package. A little pre-amp distortion will be high and spicy, power tube distortion is where the real power and balls comes from IMO.

As for the cab you're using, I'm intrigued. As far as I'm aware the V4 never came with a tilt-back 4x12 - it was either a square 4x12 or a tilt-back folded horn 2x15 with the V4B. The V2 cab was a tall 4x12, but I don't know if those were ever made as a tilt-back or just the tall cab on a cart. It's possible, but I'm not 100%.

If you want more power out of those heads, get more speakers. Or get a new head with a similar tone but more power. Those a probably your best bets.

joshwilkesbooth · #11 02-28-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

Ampeg made an SVT power amp. However, a good power amp (SS or tube) is only going to reproduce what you plug into it but louder. If you want "tube tone" then buy a tube preamp into a SS power amp.

This is BS. Have you not heard of "power tube distortion"?

Calaverasgrande · #12 02-28-2011, 03:41 PM

The OP seems to already have a boatload of speakers. First off does your Sunn have a slave out? If so you might want to check out a used Mesa 400 or 400+ these are easily had for under $1000 all the time, and occasionally for less than $800. I am not as familiar with SVT heads. Do they have a power amp in? IF so that is another, heavier, option.
I can attest that real "tube tone" is certainly the sum of its parts. A tube pre through a solid state poweramp will sound tube-ish. Likewise for a solidstate pre mated to a tube power section. I do not think either will get to the level of an all tueb setup though. Like most things in audio that sound great, there is a caveat. Tube rigs can also sound very muddy. It takes a while to get an idea of how the EQ an all works. Also most tube rigs will sound very different at differeing volume levels. Solidstate amps dont have this bug/feature.

Ps yes Mesa made the Strategy 400 and Strategy 500. They also made a few smaller 50 watt per side or 100 watt per side power amps.
of course you know that Sunn made a number of "slave" heads right? I am pretty sure there is a coliseum slave version.

christw · #13 02-28-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshwilkesbooth

This is BS. Have you not heard of "power tube distortion"?

I have and I've made it happen more than a few times. I was talking about running them clean though. Usually the purpose of a power amp is to make louder what you have. I won't deny that there are probably specialized ones out there with their own characteristics. (I'm looking at stuff like the SVT power amp which was just the rack mounted output section of an SVT IIRC.)

I'm just not a fan of the descriptor "tube tone." It's so generic and relative that it can mean anything to anyone. It could mean power tube or preamp overdrive. It could mean any number of manufacturer specific characteristics from a plethora of companies-Ampeg, Peavey, Trace Elliot, Marshall, and on and on without even getting into amp models.

To the OP-Go out and try a ton of these amps. That's how you'll get a feel for what you want. Different amps have hugely different characteristic tones. If you want "tube tone" look at whatever amp you think of having that tone. Running tubes somewhere in the signal chain isn't the answer. Finding what amp does it for you is. (There are also cheaper solutions like the Tech 21 Bass VT which does a good Ampeg impersonation and only comes in at $120-$150.)

RCCollins · #14 02-28-2011, 03:48 PM

Mesa M-180!

i_got_a_mohawk · #15 02-28-2011, 03:55 PM

SVT 300

diechris · #16 02-28-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

Ampeg made an SVT power amp. However, a good power amp (SS or tube) is only going to reproduce what you plug into it but louder. If you want "tube tone" then buy a tube preamp into a SS power amp.

i would disagree with that...

I had the Ampeg SVT300.. which is the power section to the SVT2

My GK preamp in to that tube power amp... sounded much more "tube tone" then running an ampeg tube preamp in to a solid state power amp...

I really think the power section has a lot to do with the "tube tone"

christw · #17 02-28-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

i would disagree with that...

I had the Ampeg SVT300.. which is the power section to the SVT2

My GK preamp in to that tube power amp... sounded much more "tube tone" then running an ampeg tube preamp in to a solid state power amp...

I really think the power section has a lot to do with the "tube tone"

Or perhaps the SVT300 is voiced to be Ampeg like. I suspect it was.

Calaverasgrande · #18 02-28-2011, 04:10 PM

I haven't ever seen one of these SVT tube power amps IRL. I do recall seeing an Ampeg power amp back in the late 80's that was solidstate. Is that the same thing? I think mayeb it had a tube on the input and mosfets for output. JT?

coreyfyfe · #19 02-28-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

The OP seems to already have a boatload of speakers.

Right but with a dearth of wattage to power said speakers he's spinning his wheels. IMO instead of having to run a slave power amp off of his existing head, it would be a more fruitful endeavor to either add another cab or get a different head that can achieve similar tonal goals. 70s/80s solid state sunn heads aren't exactly the pinnacle of bass amplification. I'm sure there is something out there with more wattage that can produce the same sound the OP is looking for and save him from having an (even more) overly complicated setup.

coreyfyfe · #20 02-28-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

I haven't ever seen one of these SVT tube power amps IRL. I do recall seeing an Ampeg power amp back in the late 80's that was solidstate. Is that the same thing? I think mayeb it had a tube on the input and mosfets for output. JT?

No it was called the SVT-300, straight-up 6x 6550 tube power amp - essentially the output section of an SVT. Several TB members have them and I believe there is actually one for sale in the classifieds at the moment, or there was recently.

Edit - ok, by recent, I apparently meant like Juneish. FS/FT: Ampeg SVT-300 (300 ALL-TUBE WATT POWER AMP!)