Altec 421 drivers

derridiandrift · #1 03-19-2011, 05:40 PM

Can someone either enlighten me, or point me to a source of detailed information on the differences between the Altec 421-8H and 421A drivers? When were they produced? What's the difference in how they sound? What kind of power can they take? What are the T&S parameters? Are there any current production drivers that cop the same vibe (or close to the same)?

Whew! That's a lot of questions. Help me out!

[edit: I just found the web site for Great Plains Audio, so I'm good with the specs. Now I need anecdotal info on these from people who've used them].

chadds · #2 03-19-2011, 05:58 PM

I loved their sound. I had them in an Ampeg V4B. Noel Redding replaced the JBL D-140s in his Sunn 2000s with Altecs. I found them to sound "rounder warmer" without that early breakup distortion you could get the JBLs to do. (the Mountain distortion thing)

craig.p · #3 03-19-2011, 06:49 PM

Three decades ago I played through lots of D140s/K140s and 421s. The 421s always, ALWAYS sounded a lot less "clanky." The 140s, to me anyway, always sounded just a bit too sterile, characterless, and hi-fi. I have to say, though, I never pushed any of 'em to where they'd start breaking up; for the work I was doing at the time, they always got loud enough before that point. Now . . . would the audience perceive the difference between 140s and 421s? Could even the rest of the band? Not likely. So, y'know,

D.M.N. · #4 03-19-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadds

I loved their sound. I had them in an Ampeg V4B. Noel Redding replaced the JBL D-140s in his Sunn 2000s with Altecs. I found them to sound "rounder warmer" without that early breakup distortion you could get the JBLs to do. (the Mountain distortion thing)

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig.p

Three decades ago I played through lots of D140s/K140s and 421s. The 421s always, ALWAYS sounded a lot less "clanky." The 140s, to me anyway, always sounded just a bit too sterile, characterless, and hi-fi. I have to say, though, I never pushed any of 'em to where they'd start breaking up; for the work I was doing at the time, they always got loud enough before that point. Now . . . would the audience perceive the difference between 140s and 421s? Could even the rest of the band? Not likely. So, y'know,

Really? I'd never heard the bit about Noel switching his speakers. Huh. It's weird, my experience with both these speakers have been about dead opposite. I find the K-140s to be a very warm, fat, round sound, and the time I've used 421s (in a B-15), IT seemed clanky, kinda honky and midrange-y. Not that having lots of mids is a BAD thing, but more so than the JBLs. JBLs always seemed to have had a pretty balanced response across the range to me. But hey, Altecs are great drivers, and most of this is probably in the ear of the beholders. Personally I like both Altecs and JBLs.

chadds · #5 03-19-2011, 07:46 PM

I was comparing them to D-140s.

Jim C · #6 03-19-2011, 08:05 PM

I have a pair of 421's in an old Peavey 2x15 cabinet at rehearsal
For me warm and smooth; IME you have to really crank the 2K-4K if you want them to be bright

craig.p · #7 03-19-2011, 08:55 PM

Maybe some of the disagreement WRT tone is cab-related. Back when I was using those drivers, the cab designers were pretty much winging it. Most of the ones I used were in Sunn cabs, and many of those designs were on the cutting edge of, I don't know, something or other. It'd be interesting today to hear them in side-by-side modern reflex cabs of similar volume -- with each cab's porting dimensioned properly for its respective driver(s), of course. And with proper bracing and internal lining.

craig.p · #8 03-19-2011, 08:59 PM

By the way, sorry for not explaining "clanky" well enough, but I used the word to describe not frequency extension or peaks, but rather an extreme amount of cleanness, or so much fidelity, so little distortion, as almost to be painful.

derridiandrift · #9 03-20-2011, 09:43 AM

The 421 speaker seems to have been through a few different iterations. The 421A has a lower power rating, then there's a 421-8H and a series II. Did they sound similar as the changes came about, or did the sound change significantly as the design evolved?

spellcaster · #10 03-20-2011, 10:55 AM

I just picked up an Altec 418B. Have not heard it yet or been able to compare to the d/k JBL's but I'd be courious if anyone has used one and how they stack up to the 421's.

Bassmec · #11 03-20-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellcaster

I just picked up an Altec 418B. Have not heard it yet or been able to compare to the d/k JBL's but I'd be courious if anyone has used one and how they stack up to the 421's.

The 418 was an alnico magnet version of the 421.
I have a pair of 418H Series 11 in old metal badge ampeg SVT 115 cabs, they are my favorite recording 15's nice and bright but not clanky. The H is the code for 8 ohms J is the code for 16 ohms.
This is all the info I have right now:

If you blow up the pic you can just about read it.
I also love JBL D/K/E140 series as well, they will get that Who Live at Leeds tone too.

will33 · #12 03-20-2011, 01:32 PM

Heck, I have a 418B here but I didn't know if it had anything in common with the 421. I'd also describe it as bright, lots of midrange. Also seems quite high in SPL, I ended up putting it in an old peavey combo amp that I got for next to nothing and was fixing up. It went in there because it was the loudest one of the old 15's I got laying around here. It trades some lows in order to go that bright and loud. Also have a 416 in an old gretch steel guitar amp. That one too sounds bright but still full in the lows playing a lap steel with it. I think one of these models was an optional upgrade from the CTS's that were in the B15's back in the day.

BassmanPaul · #13 03-20-2011, 01:45 PM

Yes they were but of the two I preferred the CTS. I also tried out a JBL 2205 re-coned to 2225 specs and again preferred the CTS.

will33 · #14 03-20-2011, 01:50 PM

I think the CTS's had a warmer sound. The Altec can sound a bit harsh if you're going for the old school warm tube sound. Maybe they we're consider upgrades just based on volume and power handling but who knows, that was a bit before my time.

edbass · #15 03-20-2011, 02:37 PM

I've got some Sunn cabs that I've used 421's and D/K 140's in. To my ear the JBL's are a little smoother and less "honky" in the mids when A/B'ed sde by side. They both sound good IMO, but I personally prefer the "flavor" of the JBL's.
The K's over the Sunn OEM D's by a slight margin; tonally very similar but they seem a little tighter on the bottom than the D's (or the 421's) at higher SPL's, the D's can get a little flabby when you pound on them.

I have a CTS loaded B15 also, and haven't done it yet but plan to try out an orphan 8 ohm D140F that I have lying around to see which I like better.
The CTS sounds fine, I'm just curious.

BassmanPaul · #16 03-20-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edbass

I have a CTS loaded B15 also, and haven't done it yet but plan to try out an orphan 8 ohm D140F that I have lying around to see which I like better.
The CTS sounds fine, I'm just curious.

Just be careful of those mounting spikes. IT's all too easy to put one through the cone when manoeuvring the driver around in that tight space.

johnk_10 · #17 03-20-2011, 03:07 PM

i've owned ALOT of Altec 421's. for me, they were all midrange honk (very harsh) with no low end. i've sold every set that i've had since they are my least favorite speaker ever made, and the JBL D and K series (especially K140's) are among my favorite sounding speakers of all time.

derridiandrift · #18 03-20-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

i've owned ALOT of Altec 421's. for me, they were all midrange honk (very harsh) with no low end. i've sold every set that i've had since they are my least favorite speaker ever made, and the JBL D and K series (especially K140's) are among my favorite sounding speakers of all time.

I've heard this from some other folks as well. Interesting that there is such a range of opinions. I'm beginning to wonder if these "classic" drivers might be outclassed by current speaker technology. My tech is of the same opinion as JohnK.

Does anyone know what drivers were in the Fender 2x15 cabs that were used with the Bassman heads? Were these the JBL K140s?

chadds · #19 03-20-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

I think the CTS's had a warmer sound. The Altec can sound a bit harsh if you're going for the old school warm tube sound. Maybe they we're consider upgrades just based on volume and power handling but who knows, that was a bit before my time.

When I bought a Kustom 200 and two 2x15 cabs new, back in the day the CTS speakers were my choice because they sounded full range and smooth compared to the JBL upgrade.

Gizmot · #20 03-20-2011, 03:55 PM

For use with instruments, Altec never had the "buzz" that JBL or EV did. Altec made fine speakers with good response and very high sensitivity.