Am I crazy for wanting to stop using amplifiers? (Behold the REDDI.)

naturalkinds · #1 07-10-2010, 05:40 PM

After picking up an A-Designs REDDI, I have been considering a rather dramatic move. Not replacing the two amplifiers I recently sold to begin building my studio.

The REDDI sounds absolutely phenomenal. Until I picked one up, I had always been concerned with the elusive perfect tone to my ears. I had spent hours and thousands of dollars cycling through bass gear. In the last year and a half, I have used Genz-Benz, Markbass, TecAmp, Glockenklang and Aguilar, eventually conceding that the Glockenklang and Aguilar amplifiers stood above the rest for my personal tone preference.

The trouble is that the differences were only significant in solo or low-volume practice settings. On louder performances, the difference between, say, the Markbass and Glockenklang -- or even Aguilar and Glockenklang -- were minimized from my point-of-view. And this seems to be in line with many peoples' views here. In a mix, a lot of these putatively salient differences we debate about fade away.

Moreover, neither the Aguilar or the Glockenklang sounded as good as the high-end studio equipment I have been accustomed to using recently. This includes the REDDI, but anyone with Universal Audio 6176 experience, for example, knows what bliss can come of high-end studio gear. In my opinion, it just smokes the Aguilar for gooey tube goodness in the studio. (But, of course, it's more expensive!)

Additionally, the fidelity of the Glockenklang signal -- as much as it stood out as being purer and lower-noise than any other bass amp, especially the DB750 -- was always inferior to the high-end studio gear I had come accustomed to using.

So, in the studio, the studio gear won over the amplifiers. And, in the mix, the difference across amplifiers, especially once PA was introduced, tended to vanish.

So why have an amplifier for my needs? Every situation I am playing in has a voice, and so even the practice rooms have PAs. With solo practice, I can go into the studio and sound heavenly through the system, especially if I am using the REDDI. The REDDI kills. Let me repeat that. The REDDI kills. To me, it's all the good things about the Aguilar amp that I love, without the weight, and with far superior studio applications. It has the tubey goodness, and it just oozes character. Plus, it's 33 pounds lighter, without a road case!

Anyone else experienced this kind of thinking, or abandoned amplification for a while? I read somewhere that Tommixx did this. Thanks for indulging me in this strange thread.

: )

naturalkinds · #2 07-10-2010, 05:41 PM

**SoComSurfing** · #3 07-10-2010, 05:56 PM

I totally feel you on this one. If you're not gigging or only playing gigs where you don't need the backline, more power to you. Carry the REDDI and call it a day. I still have yet to have the pleasure of using one, but look forward to the day. When I was playing much more and doing mostly session work I would walk in with nothing but an Avalon 737 and a Countryman DI. The studio where I did most of my work for some strange reason didn't have a 737. You're absolutely right about the UA gear, too, but I preferred the 737 to the 6176. For strictly a mic-pre, though, the 610 was fantastic! I also REALLY loved the Great River ME-1 and the Manley VOXBOX channel strip.

Mudfuzz · #4 07-10-2010, 06:07 PM

One should do what they want to.
If that is what you like then go for it.

On amps.
Amps to me are about as important as the bass, that is me.

For instance:
I record direct most of the time, but, there is this thing called a reamp!

So today what did we do... we reamped my bass through my Orange Thunderverb 200 three times: Clean, Overdriven and clean with a fuzz pedal

We used two different mic sets for each run-through and then picked which mic sounded better for the sound we were going for and how they all blended.

This is a fun way to work for me as I can focus first on playing the part right and then get the best sound I can after the fact. Sure it isn't as good as playing through the amp which I always rather do but sometimes the situation dictates...

**TXLawDawg** · #5 07-10-2010, 07:39 PM

So riddle me this, what exactly warrants the $700+ price tag for these? I'm not talking about it being worth that amount of money for the sound that you want or have been dreaming of. I'm talking, really, literally, why is it that expensive????

naturalkinds · #6 07-10-2010, 08:52 PM

Huge, custom-wound transformers.

pasta4lnch · #7 07-10-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

Huge, custom-wound transformers.

. . . and despite the tubes I would imagine a good amount of it's tone and "warmth" come from those trannies!

now all you need to do is get a killer poweramp for live shows. I always wanted to try a reddi - I have a Pacifica and love it on just about anything!

**TXLawDawg** · #8 07-10-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

Huge, custom-wound transformers.

Fair enough

I'd gladly pay that much if I could show up to gigs with a bass and a DI - and the DI sound as good as this one is supposed to. I don't think that's going to happen though unless I get some IEM's. Hmmm...

Sorry for the semi-hijack

naturalkinds · #9 07-10-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasta4lnch

. . . and despite the tubes I would imagine a good amount of it's tone and "warmth" come from those trannies!

Absolutely. I do not think it is an accident that, for example, one of the warmest amplifiers I have ever played -- the Heart-Rock -- has the largest transformer I have ever seen in a bass amp. (Belittling even the DB750.)

From what I gather, even old, used torodial transformers can sell for around $400 themselves!

jsbarber · #10 07-10-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

Additionally, the fidelity of the Glockenklang signal -- as much as it stood out as being purer and lower-noise than any other bass amp, especially the DB750 -- was always inferior to the high-end studio gear I had come accustomed to using.

: )

I would guess that your comment is based on experience with the Glockenklang Bass Ware product line: Soul, HeartRock, etc. While these are excellent products, they do not represent the top of the line from Glockenklang, especially if you seek studio-like performance. I think that you'd find that the Glockenklang Bass Line, (Bass Art Classic Head/Preamp and Bugatti power amp), is very close to, or on par with, the quality of studio gear. I once A/B'd a Bass Art Classic Head with a Millennia STT-1 into a Bugatti (using an Accugroove Whappo Jr for both). There was a difference, with a slight preference for the STT-1, but the BAC was very close. The Glockenklang BAC Head/Pre has a lot of useful features (Serial and Parallel, passive/active inputs, DI) that may not be available on studio gear.

FWIW,

Jim

johnk_10 · #11 07-10-2010, 09:54 PM

the tonal advantages of a channel strip is why i've been using any one of these three channel strips for my bass rig lately, thru a crown xti2000 (bridged mono @4 ohms) into a whappo jr. IMO, it sounds very, very good:

JimmyM · #12 07-10-2010, 09:56 PM

you can, and i've considered this and i'm still considering it for bowzer gigs because he hates to hear anything but himself at ear splitting levels. but i decided against it for the most part because the rest of the band needs to hear you, and monitors usually suck for bass.

**SoComSurfing** · #13 07-10-2010, 10:16 PM

John, how would you compare that Focusrite to the UA and Avalon? I always had one at my disposal, and may have a chance to pick one up on the cheap, but don't recall ever using it.

naturalkinds · #14 07-10-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbarber

I once A/B'd a Bass Art Classic Head with a Millennia STT-1 into a Bugatti (using an Accugroove Whappo Jr for both). There was a difference, with a slight preference for the STT-1, but the BAC was very close. The Glockenklang BAC Head/Pre has a lot of useful features (Serial and Parallel, passive/active inputs, DI) that may not be available on studio gear.

Fair enough.

: )

My only point was that the high fidelity, studio-appropriate sound that attracted to me to Glockenklang in the first place was overshadowed by the general purpose professional studio gear I had access to. This is why, I wager, we often see a direct signal from high quality studio preamps over bass amps. I am not arguing that there is no place for placing a microphone in front of a bass cabinet and blending it with the DI signal! Just saying that for solo demo purposes or DI recording, I saw very, very few advantages to using the Glockenklang system over using a high quality, multi-purpose preamp.

The rub, of course, is that without an amp, you have nothing to blend with your DI signal!

steve_rolfeca · #15 07-10-2010, 11:05 PM

I went amp-less for about a year. A tight setup schedule at my main gig and laziness were major factors. Load-in and load-out was a breeze!

In order for it to work, you have to really like the native tone of your bass, and not be reliant on some huge mutha tube stack for your signature sound. You also have to have total confidence in the sound guys and the monitor system.

At the gig in question, they use QSC HPR122i powered speakers as monitors. I like flat, wide-response amplification, I have a great DI (Radial JDI), and the HPR's have more power than some of my bass rigs, so I was OK without an amp.

Unfortunately, our supply of sound guys is pretty variable. After having my monitor mix messed up a few times to the point that I had to play by muscle memory because I couldn't hear myself, I went back to carrying an amp.

I have to say that I'm enjoying playing through my "A" rig again. I've been playing long enough that I can sound decent through just about anything, but my playing is certainly better when I'm really inspired by my tone on stage.

Of course, if you find the sound of a REDDI into the board and a monitor inspiring, then that IS your "A" rig...

fretno · #16 07-10-2010, 11:13 PM

A-Designs make killer gear .Congrats ! As for no rig , I like to push a little air with a amp of some kind , but no question you are giving FOH quality signal with that .

pasta4lnch · #17 07-11-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

the tonal advantages of a channel strip is why i've been using any one of these three channel strips for my bass rig lately, thru a crown xti2000 (bridged mono @4 ohms) into a whappo jr. IMO, it sounds very, very good:

have you ever tried a chandler limited TG strip? no comp, but tone for days!! I though it blew away the 737 and the UA stuff. Never tried the Focusrite except for the red series . . .

BassGreaser · #18 07-11-2010, 09:27 AM

I was doing the samething with all my upright work. I rand my upright (Underwood pickup) straight into a REDDI for all of my gigs and i always had a great sound.. I just wish ididnt have to sell it to pay bills

WalterBush · #19 07-11-2010, 09:27 AM

I gig ampless as much as possible, using a Summit Audio TD-100 as my DI and just going through the monitors. For one of my regular gigs, though, the band insists on my 810; like JimmyM said, the band needs to hear bass better than most club monitors will allow.

At least they're willing to help me haul it. I have to admit, it looks good on stage, too. Currently powered by an old Carvin power amp fed from the TD-100.

johnk_10 · #20 07-11-2010, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasta4lnch

have you ever tried a chandler limited TG strip? no comp, but tone for days!! I though it blew away the 737 and the UA stuff. Never tried the Focusrite except for the red series . . .

never tried the chandler, but for me, i think that it would be difficult to beat the UA 6176. i had their LA 610 MKII at the same time, and liked it too, but preferred the 6176's 1176LN comp over the LA2 style comp. the 1176 still remains my favorite comp for a bass, and that's why i gravitated to the 6176. i also have some old 60's Neve 1060 modules that sound great too, but still prefer the 6176.

IMO, the Focusrite ISA420MKII is really good, fat and extremely flexible, having three types of compression available and super nice eq to me, it has a bit of a 'harder' british sound for a bass than the UA. to me, it's a little more along the lines of the Neve's sound, but with modern features.

i also did own a few Manley pieces in the past and they just didn't do anything for me, so i sold them years ago.