Amp Choice: SWR SM-400, Trace 250SMX

Count Bassie · #1 09-11-2011, 07:47 PM

Yeah I know it's inviting all sorts of riff-raff and acrid sarcasm, asking a question like this. But I'm asking because, although I know they're distinctly different voices, they're also different power brackets and very different designs.

Trace is said to be generally louder than the posted wattage rating per-head belies... I don't know why that is, but I do understand that GK's power amp and serial-eq design uses power so effectively that you'd think the 400RB is actually more than a 200 watt head. That in mind, I wonder what the real-world difference in apparent volume actually is between the SWR SM-400 and the Trace Elliot AH250SMX (early 90s)?

The 400 watt (bridged) SWR has an inherent "scoop" in the lower mids, and an overwhelming amount of un-hearable, power-robbing bass that hits the power section. The 250 watt Trace has a graphic eq, 2-band compressor and blend-able pre-sets...

Anyone done a head-to-head test of these two venerable gadgets? I'll be running the winner through a pair of TL-606 cabs, loaded with Eminence Kappalite 3015 speakers. And I like both signatures- the Trace and the SWR- I'll live with either one. I just want to get the most out of my cabs, at the end of the day.

Count Bassie · #2 09-12-2011, 07:19 PM

Bump. I insist...

mustbampeg · #3 09-12-2011, 07:25 PM

Trace, all the way.

My .02

Randy

Count Bassie · #4 09-12-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustbampeg

Trace, all the way.

My .02

Randy

Does the 250 watt Trace, you think, keep up with 400watts? Pedestrian question, but there are variables here.

mustbampeg · #5 09-12-2011, 07:45 PM

Absoloutely. Speaker cone area will affect volume more than wattage in this case, because 150 watts difference isn't that much. The perceived volume difference between the two amps would be negligible.
Plus, I just prefer the Trace sound.

Randy

Count Bassie · #6 09-12-2011, 07:48 PM

I like the Trace thing as well- I've had it for 2 years- after coming back to it. It has been in the shop a few times though, and I'm a little annoyed with that. The DI is noisy, the effects level knob is ineffectual, niggles like that. But it still does the thing, and the compressor does a nice trick.

Maybe it needs a trip to the British Audio Spa... thanks for the reply man.

maxbass · #7 09-13-2011, 02:40 AM

I owned both at the same time for a while once.
the SM400-S wasn't louder than the AH250SMX, even bridged at 4 ohms, but It has a greater amount of power reserve before clipping.

Alex1984 · #8 09-13-2011, 02:49 AM

The SWR is clean through and through. The thing I liked most about it is how full the body sounds. Because of the inherent scoop, it may not seem overly loud (it was enough for my purposes through a 410), but each note pack quite a lot of low-mids, making it sound very full. I may sometimes run my VT Bass through it for a bit more grit, and it has an excellent power section.

oerk · #9 09-13-2011, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Bassie

Trace is said to be generally louder than the posted wattage rating per-head belies... I don't know why that is, but I do understand that GK's power amp and serial-eq design uses power so effectively that you'd think the 400RB is actually more than a 200 watt head.

The power supply in Trace amps is generally oversized => more headroom and better dynamics when pushed.

At least that's what I got from reading here, and the 150W Trace I repaired once supports that theory. The transformer was huge for such a small head. I compared it against a 300W Warwick and a 300W Tech head, and the Trace was easily the most powerful.

parsons · #10 09-13-2011, 04:53 AM

Perform the SWR Aural bypass mod and it'll put all the meat back in he amp.

Count Bassie · #11 09-13-2011, 04:57 AM

Thanks for the replies... reading, sussing...

will33 · #12 09-13-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsons

Perform the SWR Aural bypass mod and it'll put all the meat back in he amp.

This.

parsons · #13 09-13-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

This.

This man knows. Seriously. I will have a hard time selling my SM400 after I did the bypass mod a few weeks ago. Sounds huge now and thats without any effects in the loops.

Count Bassie · #14 09-13-2011, 08:55 PM

I'm kinda thinking, that after the mod it'll be nice to have a few routing choices- like for bi-amping, etc. I see a Chapman Stick (SB-8 bass) in my future...

Yeah,...

Nightlyraider · #15 09-13-2011, 09:25 PM

TRACE!

For what its worth, I absolutely loved seeing another Talkbass user write in a thread something along the lines of tube watts > te watts > ss watts

I have a stereo TE amp where each channel is rated at 250. It is a powerhouse and everything you need is provided up to the point that a true FOH system "should" be taking over. I might not say its the best for an outdoor pavilion w/o backup, but it will do every except that.

Count Bassie · #16 09-14-2011, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightlyraider

TRACE!

For what its worth, I absolutely loved seeing another Talkbass user write in a thread something along the lines of tube watts > te watts > ss watts

I have a stereo TE amp where each channel is rated at 250. It is a powerhouse and everything you need is provided up to the point that a true FOH system "should" be taking over. I might not say its the best for an outdoor pavilion w/o backup, but it will do every except that.

That amp you're talking about is twice the power capability my AH250 has. IF mine were stereo I would never post this thread! I think I'm leaning toward the SM400 just because it's an uppage of headroom for a larger venue- even with all the good rap TE has about their overbuilt power supplies, I'm led to believe that after the Aural-Enhance nix I'll move up a notch in that respect.

And I do like the SWR signature, I can get on with it.

I also have a GK 400RB for lower-power requirements, which has its own niche as far as power usage- a favorable attribute, and built like a little tank.

Nightlyraider · #17 09-14-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Bassie

That amp you're talking about is twice the power capability my AH250 has. IF mine were stereo I would never post this thread! I think I'm leaning toward the SM400 just because it's an uppage of headroom for a larger venue- even with all the good rap TE has about their overbuilt power supplies, I'm led to believe that after the Aural-Enhance nix I'll move up a notch in that respect.

Trace's old stereo heads have completely separate poweramp channels. Using one of the two outputs I have on the back of my amp is the same as using one AH250.

Driving a single 8ohm cab with the half the AH500x is delicious. But, to each his own.

Count Bassie · #18 09-14-2011, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightlyraider

Trace's old stereo heads have completely separate poweramp channels. Using one of the two outputs I have on the back of my amp is the same as using one AH250.

Driving a single 8ohm cab with the half the AH500x is delicious. But, to each his own.

I can get a slam deal on the the SM400, which is what's provoked my op. Gonna do it, I think. I see a change in my gear and approach coming, and want the headroom. I like my Trace head, but I think it's a practical move, really.

Alex1984 · #19 09-14-2011, 12:57 PM

Make sure you test it out, especially volume-wise, if that's your concern.

Count Bassie · #20 09-14-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex1984

Make sure you test it out, especially volume-wise, if that's your concern.

Yes, I'll make sure to give it a run before I do it. Thanks.