Amp Clipping please help!

[PuffusMaximus]

I have a Fender TB-1200 that I run through a cabinet with two 8ohm 400 watt Carvin PS15s. My band plays nothing but loud so I usually have to turn up the volume quite a bit to be heard. I've noticed that the clipping indicator flashes every now and again when I turn up the volume a lot and have a lot of bass in the EQ. I've come to understand that clipping is when the amplifier is sending too much power, correct? Might it be that the regular 1/4" speaker cable is allowing too much to flow through? Am I causing the problem by turning way up but also trimming a total 18db on the amp (since it reduces hum)? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Dustin Teel]

Yes, you are overpowering the cabinet. That head runs 550 watts at 8 ohms, if I'm not mistaken.

One thing you could try so you don't have to turn up so loud is taking some of the bass out of the EQ and turning up your mids. That's going to make you penetrate through the sound of the whole band much better. It may not sound as good to the ear by itself, but in the mix, it may very well sound better.

I would also buy a compressor if the amp does not already have one built-in.

[Sartori]

Take some lows out. Bump up the lower mids instead. What are the other guys in your band using that you have to turn up so loud?

Also, not sure that keeping the 18db pad on the amp is doing you any good.

[username1]

Using alot of low end can really suck up the power. Having the clip light flash occasionaly shouldnt hurt anything as your amp probably has a built in limiter. If your playing loud i wouldnt use too much low end and i would boost the mids a bit and it will also sound alot better back a ways.

[markkoelsch]

The simple answer is eitehr get your band to turn down (my personal recommendation), or get more amp.

As others have pointed out, dropping some lows out will help if you boost the mids some.

[Sartori]

Getting more amp won't help one bit if you're overpowering the cab.

[PuffusMaximus]

i will definitely take off the trim. and i absolutely hate mids. i have that knob all the way to 0 and the others way up AND pulled for boost. though it does help a live setting to have some mids? and i play in a 9 piece ska band with a drummer who turns himself up to 11 among others..

[PuffusMaximus]

and thanks all for the help!!

[Sartori]

Yes, it most definitely helps in a live setting (most times) to have at least some mids, especially low mids. What sounds good on its own often doesn't work that well in the mix, and what works great in the mix often doesn't sound too hot on its own.

Also, blasting lows takes a lot more power than having a slight bump in the low mids. And is way harder on your speakers.

[nashvillebill]

Why are you getting so much hum that you have to engage the -18dB pad? That is not normal.

The speaker cable really has nothing to do with this, by the way (unless the wire in it is way too small, which is unlikely). The whole idea of an ideal speaker cable is to let all the current through that the speaker is asking from the amp--the speaker puts a load on the amp, and the amp tries to deliver.

If your cab has two 8 ohm speakers in it wired in parallel, the net is a 4 ohm load on the amp. If your amp can deliver 550 watts at 8 ohms it will be almost (but not quite) double that into 4 ohms (assuming it's rated to run into 4 ohms, which it likely is), so it's probably capable of 750 to 800 watts or so. That's a lot of power.

As others have pointed out, you are actually defeating the purpose by having too much bass in the EQ. Dial it back, let the mids do the talking. I guarantee it will sound better in the audience.

[will33]

Originally Posted by PuffusMaximus

i will definitely take off the trim. and i absolutely hate mids. i have that knob all the way to 0 and the others way up AND pulled for boost. though it does help a live setting to have some mids? and i play in a 9 piece ska band with a drummer who turns himself up to 11 among others..

Yep, there's the problem. Gotta back off on that bass some and get some midrange in there. The lower mids 200-300 hz are still the thick/fat range. It's the higher 1khz-3khz range thats the nasal/twang you don't like. Listen to the rig from further out or let a friend sit in for one song using your settings so you can listen to it in the mix. If it sounds a little too middy up close it'll likely sound pretty good out front. Having that much bass in it will turn everything to mud out front...plus it's punishing the hell out of your speakers....you'll be in the market for new ones if you keep this up.

[PuffusMaximus]

its that hum you get that you can reduce by standing one way, and bring back by standing another. i put the trim on to just try to ultimately eliminate it. i believe its the 60hz hum that comes from other appliances? yes my cab has 2 8ohms in parallel making it a 4 ohm. my head is a solid state/tube hybrid, it runs 550 watts at 8 ohms, 800 at 4, and 1200 at 2 (which gets really fun shaking the house when i connect my other identical cab). i will definitely take away the trim and bass eq, and do what i must with the mids. thank you

[PuffusMaximus]

how do i control what range of mids to bring in? do i just turn the knob a little to get the lower end?

[fourstringburn]

Get an Ampeg SVT810 if you have the means! They are rated at 1600 watts peak. I have 2 of them and I have an stereo amp which can blast 1500 watts into each of them with no problems and it is plenty loud and powerful.

Big watts is fine. Your amp has it! but you need more speakers to disperse it and that will increase the volume and presence way better than 5000 watts into 1 speaker would.

I used to use 15's and 18's, but when I tried the SVT810, that was it! It truly gave me the solid tone I was looking for. Boomy bass doesn't give you clarity, that's what my old Carvins mostly were and I was always messing with the EQ. The Ampeg's tone was tight and solid and I never heard the open E sound so clear from my '78 P-Bass. I run my preamp's EQ settings practically flat and my tone seems to be more consistent.

Another advantage with big power and multiple speakers is you can get a better tone at higher levels before distortion.

You have an awesome amp, I would consider a better cab with multiple drivers!!!

[PuffusMaximus]

i wish i could get an ampeg!! once my band makes it big ill be sure to get 5 haha. being pretty young, i was very lucky to get my whole setup for the price i did since i dont have a steady supportive income. im not super sure about what kind of tone i want from the setup but i can achieve what i like and am very satisfied with the rig at the moment.

[mixamatchi]

You need mids. Everyone has a place in the mix. If you look at the sound as one big graphic eq, the guitars live in a section, the drums live in another one, and you have to find yours. Your place in the mix will most likely be found, only when you adjust your sound while playing with your band. The "scooped" sound of cutting mids, is neato by yourself, but really easy to get lost in the mix. Next, is the effect you have on your audience and band, by using a tone that lacks definition. If you manage to produce a serious amount of REAL low end (most of us only THINK we are doing that), you will have a hard time hearing that. Wanna know why that "scooped" thing sounds so good ? It's because we hear mids the best. If you look at a curve of human hearing, when exposed to a full range signal, it looks like a bell-that is to say we can hear 1Khz the very best, and everything else less so in both directions. The farther you go away from 1Khz, the less we can hear it. This is why EVERYTHING sounds better with more bass. The problem comes in when YOU can't hear yourself, or how loud you really are, because you have too much low end/not enough mids in your sound. You need to stand really far from your rig to really hear low end, because the sound wave you are trying to develop is so large. Try adding mids, but listen to where they are in the overall sound of your band. Add enough for YOU to hear yourself. Also, try listening from 15 or 20 feet away. Get a long cable. It will help you hear what the audience is hearing. By the way, I used to do EXACTLY what you are doing. It's no crime, but if you want to be heard clearly, you have to find the midrange frequency that YOU can fill in, instead of guitar/vocal/drums.
Best of luck to you.

[aussiebasshero]

Originally Posted by PuffusMaximus

I have a Fender TB-1200 that I run through a cabinet with two 8ohm 400 watt Carvin PS15s. My band plays nothing but loud so I usually have to turn up the volume quite a bit to be heard. I've noticed that the clipping indicator flashes every now and again when I turn up the volume a lot and have a lot of bass in the EQ. I've come to understand that clipping is when the amplifier is sending too much power, correct? Might it be that the regular 1/4" speaker cable is allowing too much to flow through? Am I causing the problem by turning way up but also trimming a total 18db on the amp (since it reduces hum)? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Wait, so you have a single 4 Ohm cab at 400W or 2x400W 8 Ohm cabs? If it's the former then that would explain the clipping - the TB1200 has 800W at 4 Ohms. Even the latter would mean you'd be pushing the cab's limits if their power handling is only 400W

[will33]

You don't need a new rig. What knobs are there to choose from on the amp?

If it has sweepable mids set one of them to 200-300hz and turn it back up to 0 or even, could even boost it a little if you want. If it has a second mid of a graphic fish around between 700-800hz and maybe 1500-2khz and find the nasal twang area and dial just that down but not out completly. Turn the bass down a little and diaengage whatever boost thing is on and see how that sounds out front mixed in with the whole band.

[PuffusMaximus]

Originally Posted by mixamatchi

You need mids. Everyone has a place in the mix. If you look at the sound as one big graphic eq, the guitars live in a section, the drums live in another one, and you have to find yours. Your place in the mix will most likely be found, only when you adjust your sound while playing with your band. The "scooped" sound of cutting mids, is neato by yourself, but really easy to get lost in the mix. Next, is the effect you have on your audience and band, by using a tone that lacks definition. If you manage to produce a serious amount of REAL low end (most of us only THINK we are doing that), you will have a hard time hearing that. Wanna know why that "scooped" thing sounds so good ? It's because we hear mids the best. If you look at a curve of human hearing, when exposed to a full range signal, it looks like a bell-that is to say we can hear 1Khz the very best, and everything else less so in both directions. The farther you go away from 1Khz, the less we can hear it. This is why EVERYTHING sounds better with more bass. The problem comes in when YOU can't hear yourself, or how loud you really are, because you have too much low end/not enough mids in your sound. You need to stand really far from your rig to really hear low end, because the sound wave you are trying to develop is so large. Try adding mids, but listen to where they are in the overall sound of your band. Add enough for YOU to hear yourself. Also, try listening from 15 or 20 feet away. Get a long cable. It will help you hear what the audience is hearing. By the way, I used to do EXACTLY what you are doing. It's no crime, but if you want to be heard clearly, you have to find the midrange frequency that YOU can fill in, instead of guitar/vocal/drums.
Best of luck to you.

glad to know im not the only one and thanks for the explanation. i love to learn about this kind of stuff. and how do i control what range of mids to bring in?

[jungleheat]

It doesn't sound like you need any different gear, just different settings. You're not "overpowering" anything as a couple people have said. I think they just misread your first post and though you had a single 400W speaker or cab. It appears you have an exact match between amp and cab so it would be pretty much impossible to screw something up.

If the clip light is flashing "occasionally", that's fine. If it's staying on a lot, you might fry your amp eventually. As others have said, rolling off the bass will help with that as lower frequencies take more power to reproduce.

I think what you should do is set everything on your bass and amp "flat", and do this without plugging in through any pedals or other processing. Play with the band for a bit and crank up enough to be heard and to hear yourself without worrying too much about the sound for the moment. Once you get in the ballpark, then you can start tweaking the tone controls and EQ on the amp a little at a time to narrow in on the tone you want. I would continue to leave the controls on your bass flat at this point, and use them while playing to make minor adjustments. Cutting is probably better than boosting. Another route is to "center" the biggest difference between any 2 bands and offset things accordingly (if necessary).

Now (if applicable), you can add in pedals 1 by 1, and make any tweaks either to the pedal settings or to the EQ settings on the amp. This will give you a really detailed picture of what each element in your signal chain is doing, and how best to maximize each one. And thus you should end up with a really full tone that is very listenable.

Also, for practices or really any time when drums aren't miked, you should set your overall volume to blend with the drums (specifically kick and snare), and then the other instruments added in just to the point that they can be heard, and then maybe a bump more. This is often easier said than done, especially in small or weird spaces, or with uncooperative and/or clueless bandmates. But basically the message is your bandmates probably need to turn down. So many people think just cranking all the way up just "rocks" more or whatever, but almost universally, unless you're Floyd or Tangerine Dream and have the audiophile level PA/gear to back up the SPL, it's just going to make you sound like ****, and the music would have MORE impact, if everyone turned down a bit to the point that things are naturally balanced.