Amp decision: TH500 or Puma 500

[sammywalk]

Im looking to buy a new amp, and I would accept other suggestions, but so far these are the two I have my eye on (or maybe a tce RH450). I like my tone gritty and punchy. I've played through the aguilar, and I love its grit, but I wonder if the Puma paired up with the right pedals would not only give me the grit I like, but also the clear precision of the cleaner sounding amp. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Amp drive or pedal drive? General amp comparison?

[KJung]

Your logic is sound IMO. There is a certain beauty to getting all your tonal needs from a single amp head without any extra pieces. If you dig the flavor of grit and grind that the TH500 does, you are set!

If, on the other hand, you have varied overdrive, distortion, etc. needs, then a more neutral, clean sound source like the Puma500 and a variety of pedals will work great. Many, for example, use the Markbass LMII/III and the VT pedal to get that variety of response you are talking about.

Both top notch heads IMO. You just need to decide if you want that 'one thing' that the TH500 does very well, or 'lots of things' that you can only get with various pedals.

[AMp'D.2play]

Ken pretty much nails it (as usual).

Depends on if you want a head that gives you gritty & punchy right out of the gate or if you want a clean(er) head and plan to use pedal(s) to dirty it up a bit.

I've owned a Puma 500 (the earlier 2u version), and currently own a TH500, as well as a TCE Classic 450 (similar to the RH450 w/o the bells & whistles).

While the "Taste" knob on the Puma is great for shaping your tone, the Puma is inherently going to be a cleaner head than the TH500.

I would definitely choose either the Aguilar or the Tecamp over the TCE, depending on which way your tone preferences take you. I don't know how price sensitive you are, but if you're buying new, a TH500 can be had for < $600, which is close to half of what a Puma 500 goes for ($1050-1100-ish, I believe).

[sammywalk]

Well, I personally enjoy using pedals. So it is clear to me know that getting the Puma would be smarter. I guess I was just unsure if there was some tonal advantage to having some grit built in to the amp; I have searched long and hard trying to find a good simulated tube drive, yet have now given up.

price isn't really that much of an issue. I'm willing to spend the extra money when it is worth it.

So as far as the Puma 500 goes... do you guys think there are any better alternatives?(considering my taste). It seems like a really nice amp but i've never actually played through one.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sammywalk

Well, I personally enjoy using pedals. So it is clear to me know that getting the Puma would be smarter. I guess I was just unsure if there was some tonal advantage to having some grit built in to the amp; I have searched long and hard trying to find a good simulated tube drive, yet have now given up.

price isn't really that much of an issue. I'm willing to spend the extra money when it is worth it.

So as far as the Puma 500 goes... do you guys think there are any better alternatives?(considering my taste). It seems like a really nice amp but i've never actually played through one.

Another very good option if you are looking for a reasonably neutral but 'warm' tone platform for pedals is the Markbass LMIII or the Big Bang. VERY nice heads.

[rodl2005]

+1 they do take pedals very well.

[phillybass101]

I had to make the same choice. I went with the PUMA500 but for less artistic and scientific reasons. I just wanted something different than what other cats were playing through. I'm happy with the choice I made. I choose to take the road less travelled. However the Puma500 is gaining in popularity here on TB.

[henry2513]

I really like my TH500, I think it's pretty transparent and allows the sound of my bass to really come through. The thing down in my sig was recorded through my TH500 with a cheapy tascam. I think it sounds pretty warm.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by henry2513

I really like my TH500, I think it's pretty transparent and allows the sound of my bass to really come through. The thing down in my sig was recorded through my TH500 with a cheapy tascam. I think it sounds pretty warm.

Really nice sounding clip. I didn't have to see the Gary Willis influence in your profile to know that you listen to him a bit! And yes, that warm, complex midrange tone of the TH500 is pretty much perfect for what you are going for (i.e., a warm, fretless tone). The drive control must be very useful for you, to eliminate deep bass and upper treble to bring out those glorious mids.

Very nice!!!!!!!!!

[sammywalk]

Originally Posted by KJung

Another very good option if you are looking for a reasonably neutral but 'warm' tone platform for pedals is the Markbass LMIII or the Big Bang. VERY nice heads.

I used to think Markbass heads were nice, but I've more recently felt like something is a bit off with them, as though they limit your tone to some degree. But I dont have a lot of experience with them. I'm always open for other ideas though; how do you think they compare to the Puma?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sammywalk

I used to think Markbass heads were nice, but I've more recently felt like something is a bit off with them, as though they limit your tone to some degree. But I dont have a lot of experience with them. I'm always open for other ideas though; how do you think they compare to the Puma?

Depends on which Markbass head. As I've posted in the past, I find the F1 and F500 relatively similar to the new Puma500.... clean but not sterile, relatively neutral. The Puma has the edge on EQ versus the F1 and its replacement, the Big Bang... more usable low mid control). I do feel the Puma takes that tonality 'up a step' in performance.... very impressive head. Very small, high quality, and a bit cleaner than the F1/F500 up top, with a bit more powerful low end. However, pretty darn close.

The LMIII is a bit warmer, smoother and fatter to my ear, but does not have quite the maximum volume of the Puma500, due to IMO the limiting design of the power amp.

If by 'limit your tone' you mean that heads like the LMIII have basically 'their tone' with EQ sections that more mirror a mixing board's (i.e., to keep the tone of the amp the same in various rooms versus drastically changing the voicing of the amp), the Puma is similar IMO (versus, for example, the very interactive, extreme impact of the Aguilar TH500, which can sound like a number of completely different amps IMO and IME).

Not sure if that answered your question.

[sammywalk]

Originally Posted by KJung

Depends on which Markbass head. As I've posted in the past, I find the F1 and F500 relatively similar to the new Puma500.... clean but not sterile, relatively neutral. The Puma has the edge on EQ versus the F1 and its replacement, the Big Bang... more usable low mid control). I do feel the Puma takes that tonality 'up a step' in performance.... very impressive head. Very small, high quality, and a bit cleaner than the F1/F500 up top, with a bit more powerful low end. However, pretty darn close.

The LMIII is a bit warmer, smoother and fatter to my ear, but does not have quite the maximum volume of the Puma500, due to IMO the limiting design of the power amp.

If by 'limit your tone' you mean that heads like the LMIII have basically 'their tone' with EQ sections that more mirror a mixing board's (i.e., to keep the tone of the amp the same in various rooms versus drastically changing the voicing of the amp), the Puma is similar IMO (versus, for example, the very interactive, extreme impact of the Aguilar TH500, which can sound like a number of completely different amps IMO and IME).

Not sure if that answered your question.

Sorry I was unclear about the "limit your tone". I suppose its just because I dont know how to describe what im hearing. I'm thinking maybe its because when I tried out the Markbass stuff it was at Guitar Center and I couldn't find a bass that sounded good (they take terrible care of them). and if what you say about their EQ mimicking a mixing board is true, the bass quality would be important.

I would say that versatility is important to me. Are you saying that the TH500 can do what the Puma does and more? I guess what Im most worried about is is sound coloration; I like it, but I want to be able to take it away when I need to. I feel like the TH500 isn't very raw.

From what I've read, I like the new Puma significantly more. I was unaware that the Big Bang was a remake of the F1, I think I can get my hands on one and now I'd really like to try it out.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sammywalk

Sorry I was unclear about the "limit your tone". I suppose its just because I dont know how to describe what im hearing. I'm thinking maybe its because when I tried out the Markbass stuff it was at Guitar Center and I couldn't find a bass that sounded good (they take terrible care of them). and if what you say about their EQ mimicking a mixing board is true, the bass quality would be important.

I would say that versatility is important to me. Are you saying that the TH500 can do what the Puma does and more? I guess what Im most worried about is is sound coloration; I like it, but I want to be able to take it away when I need to. I feel like the TH500 isn't very raw.

From what I've read, I like the new Puma significantly more. I was unaware that the Big Bang was a remake of the F1, I think I can get my hands on one and now I'd really like to try it out.

The new Puma500 is the most 'neutral' of the amps you are considering, regarding lack of midrange distortion, and lack of a strong baked in tone. So, again, for a clean, even tone, and a starting platform for pedals, not much better out there.

If you try the Markbass heads again, MAKE SURE you realize that the neutral setting of the MB amps is the four EQ controls at noon and the two filters ALL THE WAY OFF.

If money was no object, hard to recommend the Markbass heads over the Puma500. If money is an object, you will get 80% there with the Big Bang (by 'there' I mean relatively neutral, transparent tone) for about half the price if you purchase during one of Musician Friend's sales.

All good stuff. I LOVE the TH500, but it is a little hard to dial that head to a neutral starting tone, due to a number of design decisions, including the input gain design, etc. WONDERFUL head if you want it fat and warm, with a bit of grunt to it, and the ability to dial in mild to heavy midrane growl and grit.

[sammywalk]

Originally Posted by KJung

If money was no object, hard to recommend the Markbass heads over the Puma500. If money is an object, you will get 80% there with the Big Bang (by 'there' I mean relatively neutral, transparent tone) for about half the price if you purchase during one of Musician Friend's sales.

If money was no object, would there be a better amp? say... sub $1500.

I'm always willing to spend more when its actually worth the extra money.

[leokatero]

I'm willing to spend the extra money when it is worth it.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by sammywalk

If money was no object, would there be a better amp? say... sub $1500.

I'm always willing to spend more when its actually worth the extra money.

Well, there will be different sounding amps, but IMO not better. That is kind of a bigger and hard to answer question.

The only thing I can say on this is that IF you are looking for what I describe as a relatively neutral, clean but warm micro that doesn't have a ton of baked in voicing, extreme low end or top end extension, or lots of midrange complexity/distortion in its inherent voice, the Markbass 500 watt class of heads, and the Puma are my two favorites for that tone goal (in this case a neutral platform for effect pedals that sounds even, warm, and clean when all pedals are bypassed. I find the new Puma voicing and the 500 watt Markbass class of heads to sound relatively similar (again, clean but not particularly hi fi as we use that term on TB).

Per your original post, there is a discussion going on over in the TH500 mega thread about distortion pedals in front of the TH500, and quite a few guys have combinations they love. So, this is not saying that the TH500 won't be a good platform for pedals at all. What I am saying is that the TH500 (which I own) will not deliver the clean, warm, relatively neutral tone of the Puma or the 500 watt Markbass heads when the pedals are bypassed. Of course, if you like the inherent sound of the TH500 (and it can get relatively clean and even, just not like the Puma or LMIII or Big Bang IMO), then that would work also.

The good news is, if you are in the US (I forgot), the Markbass heads and the Aguilar heads are available with a no cost (well, just shipping) return policy. Very little risk to buy one and try it, and possibly save $500. I always would think that Austin Bass Traders and the Fretspot (the two Puma US dealers) have some sort of return policy (probably a few days versus the 30 days that Musician's Friend gives you).

All these heads you are considering are top notch. All have different feature sets, and every head has an inherent voicing, so that is 'sounds like it sounds'.

I again feel that if you have the $1,000 or so, and you were looking for a clean type tone, it would be very, very hard to beat the Puma500 (or the 900 for a few hundred more if you were playing very loudly and had a big 8ohm cab or something) period and that is what I would recommend, given your goal.

[henry2513]

Originally Posted by KJung

Really nice sounding clip. I didn't have to see the Gary Willis influence in your profile to know that you listen to him a bit! And yes, that warm, complex midrange tone of the TH500 is pretty much perfect for what you are going for (i.e., a warm, fretless tone). The drive control must be very useful for you, to eliminate deep bass and upper treble to bring out those glorious mids.

Very nice!!!!!!!!!

Thanks! I've been experimenting with the drive more often now. On that clip it's almost set to 0 I believe.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by henry2513

Thanks! I've been experimenting with the drive more often now. On that clip it's almost set to 0 I believe.

It is particularly helpful if you have a somewhat deeply voiced cab or are in a boomy room. You have to be careful with the gain, since they interact, and if both are up a bit, you start to get overdrive (which is not a bad thing, but probably not what you are about).

Great playing. Enjoy that head. Should be very good for you appication!

[sammywalk]

Originally Posted by KJung

You have to be careful with the gain, since they interact, and if both are up a bit, you start to get overdrive (which is not a bad thing, but probably not what you are about).

The overdrive does sounds very nice on that amp though

[nostatic]

Owned/gigged both. Sold the TH500, kept the Puma (500 and 900, newer version). I find it to be a good middle ground between hi-fi and baked-in flavors. It gets cleaner than than the TH500, but will get a bit of the fatter vintage vibe with the taste knob.