amp limiter in/out button? its use?

bommer · #1 03-31-2011, 01:02 PM

hey, i have an XS400 amp. on it, it has a limiter in/out button. could anyone tell me the function it serves. i thought it would be some sort of compression, but the amp has a compression dial.

all help is appreciaated, thanks.

seamonkey · #2 03-31-2011, 02:56 PM

It limits the output of the amp. You'd probably have to drive it into limiting to see what it's set at. With it off, you'll probably get distortion. With it on, you will probably sound quieter.

If it were a really good behaving limiter it wouldn't have an on/off switch. It would just be on.

MuzikMan · #3 03-31-2011, 03:06 PM

A limiter IS a compressor with a special purpose. It is preset to significantly reduce gain quickly at the knee. Its purpose is to reduce clipping. You can set up a compressor as a limiter if you choose.

bommer · #4 03-31-2011, 03:50 PM

so would would limiter out be: on or off?
and thanks for those answers

greenboy · #5 03-31-2011, 03:52 PM

Doesn't Yorkville have most of their manuals online? Anyway, usually IN is on.

GrowlerBox · #6 03-31-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Doesn't Yorkville have most of their manuals online? Anyway, usually IN is on.

And then you could print it off and include it in the sale.

billfitzmaurice · #7 03-31-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Doesn't Yorkville have most of their manuals online? Anyway, usually IN is on.

http://www.traynoramps.com/downloads...an/smxs400.pdf

jeff7bass · #8 03-31-2011, 07:23 PM

They're useful for some amps. Not so for powerful amp/quality cab combinations.

bommer · #9 04-01-2011, 07:33 AM

so in is usually on. ill take that as my verdict, that manual seems greek to me...

thanks everyone for the help!

greenboy · #10 04-01-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff7bass

They're useful for some amps. Not so for powerful amp/quality cab combinations.

How so?

billfitzmaurice · #11 04-01-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

How so?

+1. A good limiter is the only sure fire way of preventing speaker damage.

greenboy · #12 04-01-2011, 11:14 AM

Yeah. When you start running bigger rigs, it really makes a difference. When you start running bigger club PA, it makes more difference yet. There's a lot to pay attention to, even so. And as you progress to even larger, higher powered systems for big venues, it gets even crazier. Who wants the burden of a non-calibrated non-limited system?

Anybody who isn't addressing this via DSP Speaker Management Systems or DSP-tailored powered boxes (or analog rack stuff if your budget doesn't extend to modernizing) is an eejit. But actually I doubt too many people who would neglect this issue are ever getting anywhere near the controls of such systems - before they are escorted away by security personnel ; }

jeff7bass · #13 04-01-2011, 02:33 PM

My rehearsal/party amp, a Carvin PB100/115, was relatively underpowered requiring me to jack up the volume at times. On these occasions I found it useful to turn my limiter up a bit, though not much because it “squashed” my sound too much. I’d say around 30 - 40 percent. Now I could jack it up without fear of injuring the amp due to a “spike” in my playing.
On the other hand, my gigging GK stack really didn’t need it (IMO) because I never really had to push it hard volume-wise to get enough stage volume. I’d attack the crap out my strings and the GK never really seemed to have a problem. GK actually refers to the absence of limiters in their RB series manuals.
I was in a hard rock band though so I wanted all the signal to pass through on stage. That’s my experience with limiters. My new Carvins have them also.

JimmyM · #14 04-01-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Yeah. When you start running bigger rigs, it really makes a difference. When you start running bigger club PA, it makes more difference yet. There's a lot to pay attention to, even so. And as you progress to even larger, higher powered systems for big venues, it gets even crazier. Who wants the burden of a non-calibrated non-limited system?

Anybody who isn't addressing this via DSP Speaker Management Systems or DSP-tailored powered boxes (or analog rack stuff if your budget doesn't extend to modernizing) is an eejit. But actually I doubt too many people who would neglect this issue are ever getting anywhere near the controls of such systems - before they are escorted away by security personnel ; }

if i were ever to go back to using a limiter or compressor, it would certainly not be with a built in limiter in a bass amp. they are all crap imho, and i've never heard one do anything except screw things up.

alexgeddy · #15 04-01-2011, 11:23 PM

By definition ... a limiter and compressor are not the same...they function differntly..u can check it out at DBXs web page... my 2 cents worth

Chris K · #16 04-01-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if i were ever to go back to using a limiter or compressor, it would certainly not be with a built in limiter in a bass amp. they are all crap imho, and i've never heard one do anything except screw things up.

End of thread.

JimmyM · #17 04-01-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexgeddy

By definition ... a limiter and compressor are not the same...they function differntly..u can check it out at DBXs web page... my 2 cents worth

they function differently but it's not like they're two opposite ends of the spectrum.

cataract · #18 04-01-2011, 11:52 PM

I take it you don't use the limiter in the Micro VR, Jimmy?

JimmyM · #19 04-02-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataract

I take it you don't use the limiter in the Micro VR, Jimmy?

nope. respect to the rest of the head but the limiter is a squasher.

Jerrold Tiers · #20 04-02-2011, 09:26 AM

As for compressor vs limiter.... A peak limiter will respond to peaks and clamp the peaks down. it will eventually cause distortion if set to really squash.

A compressor is the same, but acts on the average level, whether or not it specifically responds to the average level.

The very same device can function as an approximation to either, by adjustment of the "attack" and "decay" settings, if any are provided.

In most cases, power amp limiters these days respond specifically to clipping, and reduce level to minimize clipping. They act as "peak responding compressors", responding to peaks but acting on the average level. That is why they tend to "squash levels". That also probably accounts for why some amplifiers get dissed as "very quiet".

If you play a very dynamic style, you may be better off turning the limiter off, because it is going to take those string pops and squash everything until they fit into the amp power..... if you turn off, some clipping on those peaks probably will never be noticed, and everything else will be louder.

String pops may "ask" for 5000+ watts on the peak, which ain't happening with "only" 1200W in the amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

+1. A good limiter is the only sure fire way of preventing speaker damage.

And it can CAUSE speaker damage also........with no prior notice

The limiter can hold you at a high average power, and fry the speaker....... you won't necessarily get any audible indication of problems. Without the limiter, you would probably get "farting" or other warning that you were asking too much.

Not a ideal solution, but it probably will also keep really crazy peaks from driving the speaker out of the gap, etc......