Which amp is louder?

jjl5590 · #1 03-31-2010, 11:58 AM

The TC Electronic RH450, or the Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0?

The RH450 is only 450W, whereas the Shuttle is 900W.

But nearly everyone i've spoken to says the RH450 is quite a bit louder than the Shuttle 6.0, which is 600W.

Any thoughts?

KramerBassFan · #2 03-31-2010, 12:32 PM

Too many open variables.

What speakers are being used?

What kind of bass are you using? What are the amp settings?

Noticing a trend here?

In my opinion, and no disrespect here, but this is too open ended of a question to give you real answers. Kind of like asking whether or not Apples taste better than Cashews.

jjl5590 · #3 03-31-2010, 01:18 PM

ok, all else equal... same bass, speakers, ipedence etc...

in terms of sheer output, which would be louder? Theres a vid on the TC website of the RH450 powering a chainsaw! gotta have some power for that...

Rick Auricchio · #4 03-31-2010, 01:44 PM

So now you're asking us to just guess? There is no way to do this by guessing.

If you have a cab that's capable of taking more than 450 watts---AND TURNING THAT POWER INTO LOUDNESS---then the bigger amp should be louder.

But guess what: virtually no cab will do that, so you're back to guesswork.

As for the electric chain saw, all you need is a few hundred watts at mains frequency to run a chain saw. It's a gimmick. You notice they didn't try to really cut anything with the saw, because it would have required WAY more power.

jjl5590 · #5 03-31-2010, 01:55 PM

if i recall from their video, they cut one of their speaker cabinets in half...

and no, i'm not asking anyone to "guess", I was hoping someone might have tried out both.

As I said, people say the RH450 is louder than the shuttle 6.0

rpsands · #6 03-31-2010, 01:58 PM

There is no way that the RH450 is louder than the shuttle 9.0. It may seem louder if you use a lot of the compression but honestly I doubt the Rh450 being louder than the shuttle 6.0 without compression also.

People say they know how to use the Shuttle EQ and gain structure but I have my doubts

I'd like to see Agedhorse compare them in a video or something.

svtb15 · #7 03-31-2010, 02:16 PM

Also dont forget that Master Volume position has nothing to do with amps output.. 1 oclock on one amp may not have the same volume as 1 oclock on another..
Different manufactures may have different tapers to that control.. You would have to do it side by side, same cabs, same EQ, and turn up each amp to where it just wont go any louder... then decide from there...
Some people have said the RH450 is bottom shy as they said about the shuttle 6.
The Shuttle 9 is NO Way bottom shy.. it is a beast..
But if the Rh450 is as some have said on here bottom shy, then that could be perceived as being louder due to more mids and highs coming from a cab.. Just like a 1k test tone with a 50 watt amp would take your head off and seem louder to the untrained ear than a nice 400 watt pink noise sound...
Many , many variables to consider just not a open and shut case.

Calaverasgrande · #8 03-31-2010, 02:53 PM

sounds louder, is louder.
It's all psycho-acoustics.
just because one amp is louder on paper doesnt mean diddly.
After all are you playing bass for an audience of scientists or for a bunch of drunks?
I know I often wish it was the former, but I get the latter.

Rick Auricchio · #9 03-31-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

After all are you playing bass for an audience of scientists or for a bunch of drunks?

In some areas, they could be both! Livermore, Sandia, places like that...

jjl5590 · #10 03-31-2010, 03:11 PM

bunch of drunken scientists?

Jim C · #11 03-31-2010, 03:17 PM

At the same level of distortion and EQ curves doesn't more power equate to more potential volume at the same given impedence?

dDaddybass · #12 03-31-2010, 05:25 PM

I've played both through the same cabs (Uber 212 & 410), the shuttle 9.0 is louder.

Warfender · #13 03-31-2010, 05:32 PM

All I can say about GB is they are way under-rated on power. I've had several brands and GB kicks the ass out of every other brand I've ran or tried. Never tried TC so not sure but GB are very well made and under-rated. My 2 cents.

agedhorse · #14 03-31-2010, 08:34 PM

I once ran a blender on one of our GBE-1200 power amps, makes a unique variable speed daiquiri maker. Power saw's and drills also not a problem. (disclaimer... don't do this of course)

Any soild power amp with sufficient voltage swing driven by a sine wave generator will drive a motor type load, set the frequency to anything up to about 100Hz and there you go. I'm sure Bob Lee has driven some interesting loads in his day too.

Grooveman1961 · #15 03-31-2010, 09:15 PM

The genz benz for sure. They added some hybrid tube watts. Not as powerful as tube tube watts, but better than nothing.

Eublet · #16 03-31-2010, 10:02 PM

I've owned a Shuttle 6.0 and gigged with it for well over year. The RH450 definitely has more heft than the Shuttle 6.0. I'd love to play with a Shuttle 9.0. I'm a big fan of Genz Benz, having also owned a GBE-1200, Neopak, and a couple of their cabinets.

Loudness is such a tricky thing. The Shuttle 6.0 wasn't so much bottom shy to me as it was crystal clear and articulate in the upper mids. That focus really distracted from the bottom presence so that it had to be boosted to compensate, which sucks power from the amp. Still, the 6.0 was PLENTY powerful for my gigging needs. But the fatness of the RH450 really seems to put the volume perception over the 6.0.

Knowing several folks here pretty well who've owned the 6.0, and hearing their comments about it compared to the 9.0, I'm pretty certain that the 9.0 would have a good bit more wallop than the RH450 when connected to the right cab that could showcase the extra power. I've seen one person here at TB who bought a Shuttle 9.0, then bought an RH450, and said the RH450 wasn't enough for them. So they sold it, and then later bought a second one because they loved the tone so much that they wanted to give it a second try, and it still didn't have the output they needed. That's from memory, so forgive me whoever that was if I didn't get the particulars right. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth. The point was that the 9.0 had the output they needed, while the RH450 just wasn't quite enough.

IMO, the tonal direction between the 3 Genz heads I've owned and the RH450 is in pretty different directions. In a comparison I don't think output would be THE deciding factor between them for most players. The RH450 just sounds fat, chewy, and grindy if you want it to. Most of the folks using it seem to want just that. The Genz stuff when compared to other heads has been called "3D" sounding by many, and I think that description fits although it doesn't convey much to readers. You really have to do a direct comparison with another amp to really understand it.

Pilgrim · #17 03-31-2010, 10:05 PM

Conditions:

- Played through the SAME cabs
- With the same impedence in the cabs
- With the SAME bass as the source

The amp with more wattage output is louder. However, those conditions are seldom or never met.

Jason P Bass · #18 03-31-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Conditions:

- Played through the SAME cabs
- With the same impedence in the cabs
- With the SAME bass as the source

The amp with more wattage output is louder. However, those conditions are seldom or never met.

ONE OF THE CABINETS WAS SUBMERGED IN MAYONNAISE! HA! Thought you thought of everything, right? but NO! You didn't think of the mayonnaise!

Is this really a thread asking people whether 900W is more than 450W?

I know it's rude to answer a question with a question, but screw it. To the OP: Would you believe the true answer if I gave it to you?

agedhorse · #19 03-31-2010, 10:59 PM

Voicing and internal dynamics control play a big part in perceived loudness too. 2 amps with different voicing and dynamics may appeal to 2 different players, each one prefering one and disliking the other based on their individual playing style and tonal needs/wants/desires.

This is the problem with comparing purely power numbers, it leaves out variables that do make a big difference to perceived volume yielding different results with different playing/player situations.

Things have matured a whole lot in the (higher end) bass amp market. There are some excellent amps that sound/play/feel very different and each one suits a group of players well. That's why it's important to play some different amps and see what works well for you and your personal playing style.

It's a GREAT time to be a bass player, so many good choices. It's easy to forget this and focus on perceived negatives of each manufacturer but maybe taking a step back and remembering how good it is now compared with just a few years ago is in order?

dDaddybass · #20 04-01-2010, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Conditions:

- Played through the SAME cabs
- With the same impedence in the cabs
- With the SAME bass as the source

The amp with more wattage output is louder. However, those conditions are seldom or never met.

These are the exact conditions in which I played these amps, the GB Shuttle 9.0 is louder.