Ampeg 210AV -vs- Acme B-112 "Flatwound"

jallenbass · #1 10-04-2011, 02:28 PM

Which would you choose for use with a Stingray Classic and why? I like the SR Classic for its organic lows and low mids; don't need much in the higher frequencies. I use it at the end of the night when our jazz singer does a few blues tunes so I don't need a lot of volume. I like this price range and cabinet weight.

Right now I have an Acoustic Image Clarus head but might get an Ampeg PF500 or Genz-Benz Streamliner down the road.

jallenbass · #2 10-04-2011, 09:12 PM

Anyone?

lookiel · #3 10-04-2011, 09:56 PM

The Flatwound will have a LOT more low end and will probably seem mid shy when directly compared to the ampeg.
It's also a lot less sensitive so it won't be as loud for the same master volume setting on your amp but it can handle a good bit more power so the maximum dB output might be higher, though I'm not certain about that.
I would go for the Acme but it all depends on your tone goals.

jallenbass · #4 10-04-2011, 10:08 PM

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. I've only heard the Ampeg in real life and liked the sound (at least in a GC) so I don't know if the (relatively) mid shy Acme might be a sound that I would like.

MysticMichael · #5 10-05-2011, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Which would you choose for use with a Stingray Classic and why?

I would choose neither of those two. But that's because if I were to own a Stingray, I would do so much more for its punchy mids and aggressive slap tone.

Of course, that doesn't much help you...

MM

KJung · #6 10-05-2011, 05:47 AM

If you dig the sound of your little 10" Wizzy (listed in your profile), you will most likely LOVE the sound of the Flatwound.

However, the Acme needs quite a bit of power to 'sound good', and IMO that little Ampeg head would probably not do even the 4ohm version justice (if you have one of the more recent, high power Clarus heads, that would work geat). My Markbass F500, which drives a full range 410 to stupid volume levels, cries for mercy when digging in at moderate volumes with my 4ohm FullRange.

If you are into a low mid, burpy tone, the Acme's aren't really optimized for that, and the little Ampeg cab with the Ampeg head would probably be perfect. If, on the other hand, you are willing to get some wattage behind it, and enjoy putting a deep, fat pillow of sound under your band at no more than moderate volumes, a single flatwound (given your stated tone profile) would be killer.

If I were you, I'd sell the little Wizzy, get a Thunderchild112 and be done

jallenbass · #7 10-05-2011, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

I would choose neither of those two. But that's because if I were to own a Stingray, I would do so much more for its punchy mids and aggressive slap tone.

Of course, that doesn't much help you...

MM

No slappy for me

AMJBASS · #8 10-05-2011, 07:52 AM

The Ampeg is a really good sounding cabinet for the price(weighs nothing as well). However it is shy in the low end and the high end. It is good for that mid burp. It also sounds really good with upright. I would be more inclined to go with the Acme though. More full range, more volume/low end response.

jallenbass · #9 10-05-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

If you dig the sound of your little 10" Wizzy (listed in your profile), you will most likely LOVE the sound of the Flatwound.

However, the Acme needs quite a bit of power to 'sound good', and IMO that little Ampeg head would probably not do even the 4ohm version justice (if you have one of the more recent, high power Clarus heads, that would work geat). My Markbass F500, which drives a full range 410 to stupid volume levels, cries for mercy when digging in at moderate volumes with my 4ohm FullRange.

If you are into a low mid, burpy tone, the Acme's aren't really optimized for that, and the little Ampeg cab with the Ampeg head would probably be perfect. If, on the other hand, you are willing to get some wattage behind it, and enjoy putting a deep, fat pillow of sound under your band at no more than moderate volumes, a single flatwound (given your stated tone profile) would be killer.

If I were you, I'd sell the little Wizzy, get a Thunderchild112 and be done

As always Ken you give a lot of solid information.

The Wizzy 10 has been absolutely great for upright, ABG and P-bass. Not so much for the Stingray. Kind of harsh. I assume that the Acme won't be that but will have a fairly neutral presentation. The tone that I am after is Johnny B Gayden's stuff in the 80's with Albert Collins if that helps. Not too bright and not too burpy.

As far as ampllifiers I have a Series II Clarus which I believe is 250 watts into 4 ohms. Don't know if that would do it for the Acme. The Streamliner would though. Good excuse to buy one.

I hadn't thought about only having the TC112. Darn it Ken. Now I have something else to think about.

KJung · #10 10-05-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

As always Ken you give a lot of solid information.

The Wizzy 10 has been absolutely great for upright, ABG and P-bass. Not so much for the Stingray. Kind of harsh. I assume that the Acme won't be that but will have a fairly neutral presentation. The tone that I am after is Johnny B Gayden's stuff in the 80's with Albert Collins if that helps. Not too bright and not too burpy.

As far as ampllifiers I have a Series II Clarus which I believe is 250 watts into 4 ohms. Don't know if that would do it for the Acme. The Streamliner would though. Good excuse to buy one.

I hadn't thought about only having the TC112. Darn it Ken. Now I have something else to think about.

That early Clarus is IMO the best sounding amp AI made. However, it wouldn't work very well with the Acme, which really takes some power (not so much to get loud, but to drive that huge low end without clipping the power section).

The Streamliner sounds GREAT with the Acme 112 for EB (especially with a P type instrument), but that would SUCK for DB IMO... not enough EQ control, too much absolute low end.

I tell you what, the Thunderchild is a thing of beauty with a DB, and when you engage that beautifully voiced top end roll-off switch, it has a very warm, organic, burpy, punchy tone with the top end that I think you would enjoy. It would work great with your Clarus also, since it is 4ohm and 'reasonably' efficient... doesn't take huge watts to get a good tone at moderate volumes.

K

JimmyM · #11 10-05-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

The Ampeg is a really good sounding cabinet for the price(weighs nothing as well). However it is shy in the low end and the high end.

Agreed about the low end, but not so much the highs. The Flatwound goes to 4k, the 210av to 5k. 4k might be enough for jallen...it's certainly enough for me when I use my B-15...but the 210av will be a good bit brighter. The low end on the 210av, however, does come back if you boost the bass knob a little.

jallenbass · #12 10-05-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

The Streamliner sounds GREAT with the Acme 112 for EB (especially with a P type instrument), but that would SUCK for DB IMO... not enough EQ control, too much absolute low end.

Would not have known that.

Quote:

I tell you what, the Thunderchild is a thing of beauty with a DB, and when you engage that beautifully voiced top end roll-off switch, it has a very warm, organic, burpy, punchy tone with the top end that I think you would enjoy. It would work great with your Clarus also, since it is 4ohm and 'reasonably' efficient... doesn't take huge watts to get a good tone at moderate volumes.K

Thanks Ken. I will give this some serious thought.

CapnSev · #13 10-05-2011, 09:10 AM

I would probably get the 210AV myself. I really like the tone out of those little boxes, and like Jimmy said, you can bring some of the low end back with a bass boost. Honestly, in real world playing, I don't think you'll miss the low lows all that much.

They're super light and cheaper than the Flatwound too, and a stack of two of them makes an awesome stage monitor!

Joebone · #14 10-05-2011, 09:31 AM

Kjung's advice is spot-on.

I don't play upright, but I do play jazz, latin and folk on EB, much of it on a SR5HH (with the recent return to alnico magnets) for the same reasons you like the SR Classic, and the Thunderchild would be a great choice for you. I've had one since late last year, and it's been delightful. I've rarely used the roll-off, but the subtlety of the horn, full on, can be demonstrated by rolling off, and then entirely turning off, the horn. It's almost like the horn is projecting the horn-less sound of your bass throughout the room rather than adding any honk or accentuating clank off of the fretboard. And I figure that this projection capability, without having to go real loud to be heard, would be the holy grail for upright players. As I often play with acoustic musicians I was looking for a solution that would provide presence, pillow and projection without having to use a lot of volume to get there, and the Thunderchild does that, in a small package.

You really should check it out.

Aram · #15 10-05-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

The Wizzy 10 has been absolutely great for upright, ABG and P-bass. Not so much for the Stingray. Kind of harsh. I assume that the Acme won't be that but will have a fairly neutral presentation.

This is exactly my experience with the Wizzy 10 -- VERY mid focused cab. FYI, I've had luck with using it on EB gigs buy utilizing the Markbass VPF which scoops the mids out and boosts the lows and highs (thereby evening out the tone). I'm guessing similar "contour" knobs, or just eq-ing that way will have the same effect.

But yeah, the Flatwound will be much more neutral, with more blooming lows and less information up top, and not harsh in the least.

jallenbass · #16 10-05-2011, 08:03 PM

Not counting MysticMichael's recommendation (since he didn't know that I can't slap), we have:

2 votes for the Thunderchild
2 votes for the 210AV
3 votes for the Acme

I didn't think it was going to come out so statistically even. Some good arguments are weighting one particular choice based on the gear that I already have though. Thanks for the help.

lookiel · #17 10-05-2011, 08:20 PM

Actually my opinion was based on the first post's premise, if we're including suggestions change my vote to Thunderchild

jallenbass · #18 10-05-2011, 08:48 PM

3 votes for the Thunderchild
2 votes for the 210AV
2 votes for the Acme

MysticMichael · #19 10-05-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

If I were you, I'd sell the little Wizzy, get a Thunderchild112 and be done

Now that sounds like a plan...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebone

As I often play with acoustic musicians I was looking for a solution that would provide presence, pillow and projection without having to use a lot of volume to get there, and the Thunderchild does that, in a small package.

There you have it: "The Three Ps" - and alliterated nicely, I might add...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Not counting MysticMichael's recommendation (since he didn't know that I can't slap), we have:

2 votes for the Thunderchild
2 votes for the 210AV
3 votes for the Acme

I didn't think it was going to come out so statistically even. Some good arguments are weighting one particular choice based on the gear that I already have though. Thanks for the help.

"Statistically" speaking, you're nowhere near a large enough sample size to draw any quantitatively significant conclusions. So it's pretty much just subjective, qualitative impressions at this point.

That said, put me down as another who recommends the Thunderchild. I own it. I love it. It sings for me. We laugh together. We cry together. I read bedtime stories to it and tuck it in at night.

MM

KJung · #20 10-06-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Not counting MysticMichael's recommendation (since he didn't know that I can't slap), we have:

2 votes for the Thunderchild
2 votes for the 210AV
3 votes for the Acme

I didn't think it was going to come out so statistically even. Some good arguments are weighting one particular choice based on the gear that I already have though. Thanks for the help.

I think every recommendation makes sense given the context that each poster used.

IF you are going to keep your Wizzy for DB gigs, AND get a more powerful head, AND are looking for a full deep low end with little interest in treble response, the Acme Flatwound is a good choice.

If you are really on a budget and need a decent full range cab that will get a bit louder than your little Wizzy with EB, and still sound OK with DB and not need more power than your Clarus, the Ampeg is a nice choice.

IF you want to start over, keep your head, but get a cab that will excel at doubling, and be loud enough with EB for most gigs, the Thunderchild is hard to beat (although you might miss the 'way out front' mid response of the Wizzy.