Ampeg 8x10 vs Mesa (PH) 4x10?

[Flipper43]

I'm going to buy a new cab; I narrowed it down to these two, and I know they have different sounds, but which one would you prefer and why? I only have the money to buy one (sadly), and I play in a heavy 3 piece (not shred-metal stuff). Thanks.

[Swampman Cory]

I'd say the Mesa, because I believe 8x10s are unnecessary extra labor.

[doctorpunch]

Ampeg, there's a reason why everyone uses it.

[georgestrings]

Neither - PH610 FTW!!!





I've gigged all of the aforementioned, own the Mesa PH610, and also gig the SVT810e on a regular basis via provided backlines - and IMO, the PH610 spanks them all...

I like the tone of the PH410, but don't like how low to the ground it is - it's basically firing directly at your knees...

The SVT810e is a fine cab, and an industry standard for good reason - it's plenty loud for any situation, and having speakers up around ear level is always a plus... Also, it has great mids - on the downside, it lacks the lows of the Mesa cabs, and the upper end clarity...

Although I love my Mesa 610, if I were to play thru a 410 exclusively, it wouldn't be a PH410 - it would either be an SVT-410HLF, or one of the Eden 410s - the XLT, I think it is...

Another 610 that rocks is SWR's Goliath Sr...


- georgestrings

[bluesbass99]

Originally Posted by doctorpunch

Ampeg, there's a reason why everyone uses it.

+1. Ampeg 810 does seem to be the standard. I can't handle something that heavy, although.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Swampman Cory

I'd say the Mesa, because I believe 8x10s are unnecessary extra labor.

bah...stop being a girl!



had you said rr 810 instead of 410, i might have called it a more fair fight. but 810's, even if you play them at low volumes, just plain sound bigger than 410's. it's physics...bass = big. and especially if you're playing in a metal band where volume demands are high, bass = big. it can be done on a good 410 but to me it's not as satisfying.

btw, i think an 810 is easier to move than a 410. less deadlifting involved...you can use a handtruck and leverage to move it where you have to deadlift a 410 often.

[nepee]

wait... keep your money and get a 8x10 mesa

[Flipper43]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

bah...stop being a girl!



had you said rr 810 instead of 410, i might have called it a more fair fight. but 810's, even if you play them at low volumes, just plain sound bigger than 410's. it's physics...bass = big. and especially if you're playing in a metal band where volume demands are high, bass = big. it can be done on a good 410 but to me it's not as satisfying.

btw, i think an 810 is easier to move than a 410. less deadlifting involved...you can use a handtruck and leverage to move it where you have to deadlift a 410 often.

This is why I've been leaning more towards the 8x10- because it sounds and feels bigger. I tested a used Mesa 8x10 against the store Ampeg 8x10 with their SVT-CL and they both had noticeable differences- the mesa being the brighter sounding one-, but I'm starting to lean towards the Ampeg, because like many have said; it's the industry standard for a reason. I want to buy an SVT-II to go along with it because I've never had a full "classic" Ampeg stack before, but I think I'd be using a VT bass or something with it for the time being. I do like the Mesa though, I've always liked Mesa's gear, it's just not what I want/ need at the moment.

[TheEnthBass]

8x10 displace more air and have the capacity to deliver bigger low end than any 4x10 while still delivering clear highs and mids. I would said brand indifferent 8x10 is the way to go. I use ampeg. They are absolute tanks, obviously thats a plus and a minus but you can't blow them up and they have great tone. You also have the added benefit of having the resulting waves from the cabinet cross path with the player at ear level rather than ass level. Low frequency waves take greater distance to propogate which makes hearing a 4x10 on a loud stage with little monitor difficult to hear unless your 20ft out. Doesnt play a role in my current gigging but had a huge impact on my playing posture in metal bands playing with portable PA etc. I swear thats why so many metal players hang their heads when they play jk.

[Flipper43]

Originally Posted by TheEnthBass

..I swear thats why so many metal players hang their heads when they play..

Priceless!

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Flipper43

This is why I've been leaning more towards the 8x10- because it sounds and feels bigger. I tested a used Mesa 8x10 against the store Ampeg 8x10 with their SVT-CL and they both had noticeable differences- the mesa being the brighter sounding one-, but I'm starting to lean towards the Ampeg, because like many have said; it's the industry standard for a reason. I want to buy an SVT-II to go along with it because I've never had a full "classic" Ampeg stack before, but I think I'd be using a VT bass or something with it for the time being. I do like the Mesa though, I've always liked Mesa's gear, it's just not what I want/ need at the moment.

i would get the 8x10....i own a ph 6x10 and it probably weighs in same as a fridge....my old home stereo jbls used to be bigger than a fridge,and twice as heavy and i could move them myself..........mr.m is right.....leverage and hand trucks make size and weight arguments moot,unless you're driving a mini cooper

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by TheEnthBass

8x10 displace more air and have the capacity to deliver bigger low end than any 4x10 while still delivering clear highs and mids. I would said brand indifferent 8x10 is the way to go. I use ampeg. They are absolute tanks, obviously thats a plus and a minus but you can't blow them up and they have great tone. You also have the added benefit of having the resulting waves from the cabinet cross path with the player at ear level rather than ass level.

very true.

Low frequency waves take greater distance to propogate which makes hearing a 4x10 on a loud stage with little monitor difficult to hear unless your 20ft out.

this is not so true. low frequency waves do need to "propogate" to be heard. if it were true, headphones wouldn't work. the reason bass often sounds bigger from far away is because of boundary reflections being way stronger with bass waves than with smaller more directional waves.

Doesnt play a role in my current gigging but had a huge impact on my playing posture in metal bands playing with portable PA etc. I swear thats why so many metal players hang their heads when they play jk.

i have no scientific proof of it, but i believe this to be true also.

[Flipper43]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

i would get the 8x10....i own a ph 6x10 and it probably weighs in same as a fridge....my old home stereo jbls used to be bigger than a fridge,and twice as heavy and i could move them myself..........mr.m is right.....leverage and hand trucks make size and weight arguments moot,unless you're driving a mini cooper

I've got a truck (oooohh yea)

[Calaverasgrande]

if you do get an 8x10, dont get a cheap one! The other bassist that shares our studio has one of those particle board? svt cabs that totally started disintegrating on him. Be sure its plywood!
The Mesa (original) powerhouse 15+4x10 is a good contender against any 8x10. I think its called the PH1000 or something now.
Also the 6x10 of theirs is a butt kicker.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

if you do get an 8x10, dont get a cheap one! The other bassist that shares our studio has one of those particle board? svt cabs that totally started disintegrating on him. Be sure its plywood! .

+1. plus all those particle board cabs used muddy speakers and sound like they have a blanket on them. absolutely check and make sure it's not particle board.

[Flipper43]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

+1. plus all those particle board cabs used muddy speakers and sound like they have a blanket on them. absolutely check and make sure it's not particle board.

So I should watch out for the modern-day-made SVT 8-10's?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Flipper43

So I should watch out for the modern-day-made SVT 8-10's?

nope...you should watch out for the cabs made from 2000-2005. the ones loud makes are much better imho. they use actual wood and speakers that have some high end response. not exactly sure of the time frame for particle board, but it's definitely in that neighborhood, and the speaker changeover was in 2001. eminence had a problem with a supplier and went to a new one, and that's what happened.

[Calaverasgrande]

thanks for chiming in on that. I am not anywhere near an expert on Ampeg. i plan on gettign one again someday. the cruddy one at our space is particle board and its the low end cheapest model that the guy could get that was still an ampeg, so I assumed the pricier ones were ply,cheap ones particle. good to know though. I will keep an eye out. I see $2-300 8x10 cabs all the time on CL.

[akaTRENT]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

nope...you should watch out for the cabs made from 2000-2005. the ones loud makes are much better imho. they use actual wood and speakers that have some high end response. not exactly sure of the time frame for particle board, but it's definitely in that neighborhood, and the speaker changeover was in 2001. eminence had a problem with a supplier and went to a new one, and that's what happened.

My svt 8x10 that I just sold, was made in that time frame with the particle board. Sounded so muddy the eminence drives were meh. And now I use aguilar. Ten times clearer.

It was a good cab but there is better out there from ampeg like jimmy is saying.

[Calaverasgrande]

OTOH my experience with sound reinforcement has taught me that particle board is not a bad thing. It isnt durable like ply. But as a rigid, non-resonant baffle it is great. Try slapping the side of your plywood bass cab. Does it have a tone? I have never seen a particle board (or mdf) cab that resonated like a ply one. Whether that is good or bad for tone I dont know. But for purity sake it would seem the particle board ones should win. Just dont drag them on concrete, drop them, or get them wet.
I've seen community PA cabs eat dust from the above three causes.