AMPEG, all cabs the same?

Calaverasgrande · #1 05-13-2010, 02:41 PM

So I was looking up cabinets on craigslist. Basically Ampeg has a lot of 4x10 and 8x10's with really similar names so I always have to go look them up on their site to get the straight dope.
Well I came across this little bit of trivia. If I am to believe the Ampeg site, all of their cabs (with a couple exceptions) are 98db sensitivity. So the 4x10 is just as loud as the 8x10. The 6x10 is as loud as a 1x15 and so on.
Is this an actual fact? Does ampeg get the drivers custom made so that all of their cabs are the same sensitivty, allowing you to mix and match cabs for tone, not volume? Or is someone at Ampeg/Loud very lazy when putting together the specs pages on the website?

JimmyM · #2 05-13-2010, 02:46 PM

sensitivity specs are useless, absolutely 100% useless. and anyone who disagrees is wrong. and i think ampeg's using the sensitivity ratings of the speakers themselves anyway. there is absolutely no way the 410he is as loud as the 810e.

countrybassist · #3 05-13-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

sensitivity specs are useless, absolutely 100% useless. and anyone who disagrees is wrong. and i think ampeg's using the sensitivity ratings of the speakers themselves anyway. there is absolutely no way the 410he is as loud as the 810e.

+1

johnk_10 · #4 05-13-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

sensitivity specs are useless, absolutely 100% useless. and anyone who disagrees is wrong. and i think ampeg's using the sensitivity ratings of the speakers themselves anyway. there is absolutely no way the 410he is as loud as the 810e.

+1

my SVT410HLF, SVT610HLF and 810AV all have different 'real world' sensitivities. they are somewhat close, but the loudest (most sensitive) at low to mid volume, is the 810, then the 610, then the 410 which is very close to the 610. and the 810 is also capable of the highest max decibels.

warnergt · #5 05-13-2010, 02:56 PM

All the sensitivity spec is saying is that 4x10 is as loud as the 8x10 at 1 watt.
Of course, the 8x10 will handle more watts.

JimmyM · #6 05-13-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warnergt

All the sensitivity spec is saying is that 4x10 is as loud as the 8x10 at 1 watt.
Of course, the 8x10 will handle more watts.

but that's only 1w at 1khz, which is the standard bs measurement cab companies use for sensitivity. could be an entirely different story at 100 hz, which is what makes sensitivity ratings such crap and nonsense.

johnk_10 · #7 05-13-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warnergt

All the sensitivity spec is saying is that 4x10 is as loud as the 8x10 at 1 watt.

i agree, but i don't even believe that spec. IMO, they are not taking the number of drivers into account as all of the the 10's they use have approximately the same sensitivity.

craig.p · #8 05-13-2010, 03:47 PM

I agree it's a mess.

What amp will be driving the cab, what kind of music, how loud, what other instruments, what rooms, etc. etc.?

If you're playing Birkenstock Nation coffee club that seats twenty, and you have a V4B, sensitivity doesn't matter. If you're playing doom in a gym to 200 school kids, and you have a V4B, sensitivity will matter.

Guess all I'm saying is let's get a context for the question.

jastacey · #9 05-13-2010, 03:51 PM

I might add, that when they measure the speaker cabinets for sensitivity, it's usually 1 meter away from the face of the cabinet

SPQR · #10 05-13-2010, 03:52 PM

Sensitivity would be measured at 2.83V. So if the nominal impedance is different, they could have similar sensitivities.

Efficiency is measured 1W. They most likely have different efficiencies.

Specs are not useless unless they are misunderstood or false.

rbonner · #11 05-13-2010, 03:58 PM

A lot of guys will play a 15 and a 410. But you will get more zoom out of a single 810. Just get one of those and call it a day.

BOB

JimmyM · #12 05-13-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPQR

Sensitivity would be measured at 2.83V. So if the nominal impedance is different, they could have similar sensitivities.

Efficiency is measured 1W. They most likely have different efficiencies.

Specs are not useless unless they are misunderstood or false.

false would be the operative word with sensitivity specs.

thombo · #13 05-13-2010, 04:26 PM

with respect to ampeg, most companies do it this way.

i've found that, when cabs have the same size drivers, more speakers equal more volume. that said, it's also been my experience that speaker surface area does not equal more volume: for example, i've played 2x15's that are louder than most 4x10's. then there is the speaker design (ported, sealed, folded horns, etc), which i'm going to leave to people who know more than me.

georgestrings · #14 05-13-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbonner

A lot of guys will play a 15 and a 410. But you will get more zoom out of a single 810. Just get one of those and call it a day.

BOB

Agreed - also, it's been my experience that *as long as you have a vehicle to haul it*, one large cab is easier to gig with than 2 smaller ones... Of course, YMMV - but I'm basing that on the difference between a 410+210 rig vs a 610 rig for gigging...

- georgestrings

SPQR · #15 05-13-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

false would be the operative word with sensitivity specs.

I used "misunderstood" in lieu of calling you ignorant.

**B-string** · #16 05-13-2010, 05:22 PM

Can't single out Ampeg on this one, it is industry wide.

RickenBoogie · #17 05-13-2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPQR

I used "misunderstood" in lieu of calling you ignorant.

Uncool.

JimmyM · #18 05-13-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPQR

I used "misunderstood" in lieu of calling you ignorant.

and i used "false" in lieu of calling you an *******.

ok, here's your chance to edumacate me, genius. go.

tombowlus · #19 05-14-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

but that's only 1w at 1khz, which is the standard bs measurement cab companies use for sensitivity. could be an entirely different story at 100 hz, which is what makes sensitivity ratings such crap and nonsense.

I, too, was dissatisfied with the 1w/1kHz/1m test for sensitivity when it comes to bass cabs, so we use the average dBSPL from 200Hz to 900Hz for our measured sensitivity in BGM.

tombowlus · #20 05-14-2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPQR

Sensitivity would be measured at 2.83V. So if the nominal impedance is different, they could have similar sensitivities.

That is an excellent point. To date, we have been testing using 1 watt into the cab's "stated impedance" (usually 4 or 8 ohms), but if we do that, and the nominal impedance varies (which it always does) it can certainly make a cab measure out as more or less efficient. But, in a real-world setting, if the amp and the cab can handle it, you should still get more volume from a cab that measures as more sensitive (because of the impedance difference). The problem, of course, would be where the nominal impedance is a good bit lower than the stated impedance and then this does lead to issues with the amp (or cab).

Tom.