Ampeg B15 R

[theaterbass29]

Guys I've been away from Talkbass for a few years as a poster, and more as a reader. Recently, I've had more time to give some thoughts, so here goes.
This past year, I was given an awesome opportunity to purchase probably the one and only, brand new, still in the unopened box, Ampeg B15R. I have wanted one if these amps since they came out in the 90s. Now, to think I would have a brand new one, 5 years after they were discontinued, lol, I couldn't be happier.
Anyway, I know these don't get alot of props on here compared to the old B15 and the new Heritage, but I think it's only fair that it be revisited and looked at in it's own right.
Everyone knows that the creator, if you will, of the famous B15, Jess Oliver, also was on board to help design the R. It was their attempt to modernize the classic rather than simply reproduce it. Everyone always associates the original to players like Jamerson, Babbitt, Dunn, and others, however, truth be told, those guys didn't really like the original, but rather they were plentiful and available. The new "R" was supposed to correct the things that players didn't like back then, such as add a tweeter option for extended, hi-fi range; a switchable 60-100 watt option for more power, so it could be used live and studio; an XLR out with pre/post; and using tubes that were in good supply such as 12ax7s and 6L6s. Many people complain of "infinite baffle" vs "double baffle". Honestly, with 100 watts. I don't think the double baffle would work as well as the original 30 watts. I could be wrong, but the closed cab seems to like more power and when you open it up, the cab really speaks.
My settings for active 5 string jazz are input -15, gain max, bass max, mid almost max, mid freq pos. 1, treble 1 o'clock. I like having the tweeter set to full and even like the way the Ultra Hi button "in" gives the hi-fi sound. I set the output vol to 10 pm and switch between power settings for studio vs live. Live I also run at 4 ohms and use an SVT210AV as extra speaker. This combo sounds so awesome, it makes me feel that this is what Jess was shooting for with this amp, rather than copying an old design, of which there are plenty of and were not in large demand, until the $4000 Heritage, along with a Bass Player cover story changed everything. Your thoughts?

[rodl2005]

Good to hear & congrats on the score! Afaik the B-15R is basically a V4BH head with a 60w option in a B15 guise. & the V4BH is a great amp too, so....
Congrats again!

[JimmyM]

Never heard a B-15R live, but I've heard quite a few recordings made with them, and they sound pretty great. Can't say I agree with your assessment of the double baffle cabs, though. They originally came out with lighter duty speakers, but I've got a couple with newer Eminence speakers that handle a lot of power, and I've run them with an SVT and they sound great and can take quite a pounding.

OTOH, I was quite shocked at how well the new PF cabs do with copping the B-15 sound, and they're sealed with tweeters. So I see the appeal of the B-15R.

Anyway, it's all good. No such thing as a bad B-15, no matter what model it is.

[Caca de Kick]

Congrats on the NOS score!
I had a B15R with a matching ext cab for many years. I took it to every recording session, which every engineer loved it because I didn't have to have an ear-bleeding loud rig to get that tube dynamic. I played it out live a few times and it always sounded great. I really miss having that amp around and thought about eventually finding another.
I definitely don't go for a vintage sound, lots of modern grit and grind with me, although I don't favor tweeters and usually kept mine off. But I ran my output volume full open and input volume about 11 o'clock. To me input at max drove to distortion easier. But yea, mid knob almost full and freq pos 1 gives a very fat low-mid that punches nicely on tape. But live I'd set the freq at 4 otherwise the whole rig and ext cab would vibrate and rattle.
To me the best thing I ever did with the rig was install some JJ/Tesla E34L's. I felt it opened it up and blossomed more compared to the stock GT's.

[DLEE]

I've had mine about a month now and I dig it.Eventually I want to get an extension cab to go with it. The rattling can get irritating but I mostly keep it on 60 watts and that seems to keep a handle on it. Definately a "use your ears not your eyes" amp. Some of my favorite tones come from keeping it well below 12 o'clock. I hooked it to a monitor cab just to get an idea of a 2 cab set up and it really opens up,enough for probably 90% of the rooms I play. Lining out to my B100R makes for a cute little Ampeg monster! I get a little bit of hum connected that way,nothing I would call outrageous. I believe a Radial Switchbone would be the ticket for that setup. What this really has me jonesing for is a V4BH for my SVT cab. Hooking this to my 810 is almost perfect, plenty of volume and oozey tubey tone. BTW, mine still has the tags on it also, so I would consider as close to NOS as you can get.

[beans-on-toast]

There have been discussions where people tried different tubes in this amp to see how it changes the tone.

The amp is nice in that it you can run EL34 or 6L6GC tubes in the power amp. There is a switch to select the proper bias. There are some tonal differences between the two.

The user's manual suggests that a 12AX7, 12AT7, and 12AU7 can be used as a phase inverter (V3, the one closest to the power tubes). Of course there are tube options for the pre-amp as well.

From the manual: Preamplifier tubes are also used to drive the power tubes. When used in this application, a 12AX7 will produce a more distorted tone than a 12AT7, which produces a clearer, sweeter sound. A 12AU7 is even cleaner and brighter than a 12AT7, giving more definition to the sound. In some cases it is possible to change the sound by changing the type of preamp and/or driver tubes.

All these options are nice to have. It makes the amp more flexible.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by theaterbass29

............. Everyone always associates the original to players like Jamerson, Babbitt, Dunn, and others, however, truth be told, those guys didn't really like the original, but rather they were plentiful and available.

As I recall, Duck Dunn spoke very highly of the B-15 and the SVT in past interviews. Since he has played mostly large venues over the years, he uses the STV, because it's got the gas to play his gigs. Fender Bassmen amps were plentiful too, but the B-15 was a cut above the rest, IMHO

Although Jamerson went directly into the board at Motown, there are lots of pictures of him doing gigs with the B-15. He also owned, and apparently gigged with a Kustom 200, I believe, but there aren't any pictures I've ever seen with him playing through it. If he truly disliked the B-15 there would have been other options he could have used. You're correct though, the sound on all those famous Motown recordings isn't coming from a B-15N the Detroit studio was way to small.

Bob Babbitt, moved on to the Phil Jones Bass amps because he liked the sound and the covered bigger venues with sound he was after. When he played on the concert footage for Standing in the Shadows of Motown he used a B-15N.

Originally Posted by theaterbass29

........... Many people complain of "infinite baffle" vs "double baffle". Honestly, with 100 watts. I don't think the double baffle would work as well as the original 30 watts. I could be wrong, but the closed cab seems to like more power and when you open it up, the cab really speaks.

I'll have to respectfully disagree here. I gigged with a Walter Woods MI-100-8 a B-15 Double Baffle cabinet. It was plenty loud at 100 watts and it didn't break a sweat. At one time, I was doing club dates with a pair of B-15 Double Baffle cabinets. They sounded better tonally and were more efficient than a pair of rear ported mid bass Bag End's or the sealed box Music Man 115's that were available.

Originally Posted by theaterbass29

.............This combo sounds so awesome, it makes me feel that this is what Jess was shooting for with this amp, rather than copying an old design, of which there are plenty of and were not in large demand, until the $4000 Heritage, along with a Bass Player cover story changed everything. Your thoughts?

Hey, if it works for your playing situations, and it sounds great then you've found what you're looking for. A Vintage B-15 wasn't conceived in the era of low impedance pickups and 5 string basses. With a four string passive P or J bass however, it's the shizzle.

There are indeed lots of vintage B-15's out in circulation and for me that's the greatest testament to Jess Oliver's legacy. What other bass amp, built primarily in the 1960's, is still around in the numbers that the Portaflex B15's are today. St. Louis Music, and Loud Technologies both went to Jess when they decided to develop new versions of his original design. This makes perfect sense because he conceived and built the original.

Personally, IMHO, if I were looking into buying a modern version of the B-15, I'd go with the PF 350 or PF500. I've had a chance to play through them into the new 115 and Jimmy M is absolutely correct. They sound so close to the double baffle B-15's, and with more power at a great price. Just my take though.

There are also much lighter than a vintage B-15N, the B15R or the Heritage B-15 which is a beautiful, black, boutique, amp that I can't afford, and frankly, if I could afford it, I'd be so hesitant to gig with it, for fear of scratching or denting it that it doesn't make sense to own one.

Ric

[DJJazzV]

Exactly! So many options. I just put a 12AX7 back into the P.I. slot, and it opened up quite a bit over the 12AU7's and 12AT7's I was trying. I also put a matched set of "Winged C" 6L6 power tubes in it. Really nice.
Fantastic amp.
I'm learning to not be afraid to turn the knobs on it. Especially cranking up the Gain past 3 o'Clock. Most other amps would break up by then. The B15R almost wants more, and I'll have to try it.

Originally Posted by beans-on-toast

There have been discussions where people tried different tubes in this amp to see how it changes the tone.

The amp is nice in that it you can run EL34 or 6L6GC tubes in the power amp. There is a switch to select the proper bias. There are some tonal differences between the two.

The user's manual suggests that a 12AX7, 12AT7, and 12AU7 can be used as a phase inverter (V3, the one closest to the power tubes). Of course there are tube options for the pre-amp as well.

From the manual: Preamplifier tubes are also used to drive the power tubes. When used in this application, a 12AX7 will produce a more distorted tone than a 12AT7, which produces a clearer, sweeter sound. A 12AU7 is even cleaner and brighter than a 12AT7, giving more definition to the sound. In some cases it is possible to change the sound by changing the type of preamp and/or driver tubes.

All these options are nice to have. It makes the amp more flexible.

[DLEE]

Bob Babbitt, moved on to the Phil Jones Bass amps because he liked the sound and the covered bigger venues with sound he was after. When he played on the concert footage for Standing in the Shadows of Motown he used a B-15N.

Pretty sure he said in Bass Player mag he used a Carvin 100 bass amp. Jamersons B-15 and Phil Chens P-bass were just there for inspiration. I'm old, I could be wrong. LOL!

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

As I recall, Duck Dunn spoke very highly of the B-15 and the SVT in past interviews.

Bob Babbitt, moved on to the Phil Jones Bass amps because he liked the sound and the covered bigger venues with sound he was after. When he played on the concert footage for Standing in the Shadows of Motown he used a B-15N.

For Duck, the SVT=yes. But I too read inteviews (and a youtube video) where he says he hated the B-15.

For Babbit, the SITSOM event is incorrect. The B-15 onstage is a merely a prop, along with Phil Chen's 60's P as a backup. Bob gave a rundown that the sound you're hearing on the SITSOM show is from a different amp sitting right behind him.

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by DLEE;

Eventually I want to get an extension cab to go with it.
-----------------
I hooked it to a monitor cab just to get an idea of a 2 cab set up and it really opens up,enough for probably 90% of the rooms I play.

As with any amp for me, 99% of the time I don't like a single 15" handling any situation..I like them in multiples. The ext cab made a huge difference.
That B15R head plugged into my Mesa 2x15 sounded godly.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

For Duck, the SVT=yes. But I too read inteviews (and a youtube video) where he says he hated the B-15.

For Babbit, the SITSOM event is incorrect. The B-15 onstage is a merely a prop, along with Phil Chen's 60's P as a backup. Bob gave a rundown that the sound you're hearing on the SITSOM show is from a different amp sitting right behind him.

Wow, so the B-15 was just for cosmetic purposes only. Weird. So, if Babbitt and Duck (and possibly James) all disliked the B-15 is it's legendary status just a myth that
grew over the years. Since I own one, and a vintage P Bass that I've gigged with. I'm not totally sure I buy that. It sounds great to me. I do remember that the engineers at Stax had Duck run the treble wide open in the studio for sessions, because, when they did the mix, it sat perfectly where they wanted it to. If I remember correctly, he said that he really (hated) disliked that EQ setting for the amp.

Ric

[bassgod0dmw]

I would LOVE to find one like that. I was trying to get on of the 2 that recently came up for sale, but shipping was going to be a bear.

I plan on getting a B15 one of these days, but I think the B15R would be a better choice for more of a gigging type situation for me.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Wow, so the B-15 was just for cosmetic purposes only. Weird. So, if Babbitt and Duck (and possibly James) all disliked the B-15 is it's legendary status just a myth that
grew over the years. Since I own one, and a vintage P Bass that I've gigged with. I'm not totally sure I buy that. It sounds great to me. I do remember that the engineers at Stax had Duck run the treble wide open in the studio for sessions, because, when they did the mix, it sat perfectly where they wanted it to. If I remember correctly, he said that he really (hated) disliked that EQ setting for the amp.

Ric

Babbitt I've heard weasn't a big fan of the B-15. But Duck is quoted in the Ampeg book as saying he liked recording with the B-15 for that exact reason you said he didn't like it. Can't find the exact quote but it's in there somewhere if someone else wants to go looking for it.

Personally though, I couldn't give a rat's ass if Jamerson, Babbitt and Dunn loved it or hated it. They ain't me and I love B-15's...so for me, that's where the story ends.

[RickenBoogie]

Congrats- I still want one of those awesome reissues. The B15R is on the very top of my wish list.

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

is it's legendary status just a myth

I don't think at all that James hated the B-15. Afterall, he kept buying a replacement one everytime his old one would get stolen...he went through what? like six of them?
The one in the SITSOM event was Jamerson's forgotten unit he stashed at Pistol Allen's house.

As far as myth? I like B-15's just as much as the next guy, but I'm pretty sure for decades we all thought every Motown tune was recorded on one. Once the book and (later) film came to light we learn James didn't use one in sessions until he got to LA. But it worked at Stax, so yes and no?

[theaterbass29]

I quoted Jamersons dislike from Babbitt himself. As I said, they were plentiful and worked in the studio. But when folks like Kustom came out with 200 watts and then the SVT with 300 watts, let's face it, until they became known as vintage and collectible, you could buy them all day long for $300-400, and you rarely saw them on stage during the 70-90s. I'm not dissing, and I'd buy the new Heritage if I had $4000 to blow, but hype is hype. It's a 30 watt studio machine. The "R" is capable of more. Just an opinion though... ; )

[theaterbass29]

Just read some of ur posts. The B15 in SITSOM was a prop, 100% positive of that. Jamerson has pictures all over the net of him with his Kustom 200 w 215 cab. If you've ever played one, they kick major ass, btw. I've only seen a couple of pics if him with a B15 live. With Marvin Gaye, he has a huge Fender rig. I agree that Dunn used the B15 early on, but he switched to SVT when it came out in early 70. Again these guys used what was available. Most amps were tube back then and under 50 watts. If you've ever played with a live band and a 30 watt amp, you know it's a total distortion and fart box. Unless you can get the stage volume down. Live bands played quieter in the early 60s because vocals were put through crappy speakers on their own, so the bands played quieter as to not overpower the vocal. Usually concerts were in auditoriums designed for acoustics, and small club gigs were in tiny places where the music was more background than, say, a concert.

[E.J. T.N.T.]

How I wished they put out a more affordable version of the B-15. Man, I think everybody would want one if it was at a reasonable price. Hell there is even people that think the 4k heritage is reasonably priced. Imagine the sales, the revenues, the profits. What is the Ampeg marketing team waiting for? The door is open, give it to us...

[JimmyM]

I think Ampeg wants to keep the B-15 pure and make it in America with almost all American parts. Could be wrong, though, and I'd be first in line to get a more affordable new B-15. Hell, they could make a head that would go on top of the PF cabs and I'd like that just fine. Wouldn't even have to flip it to enjoy it.

Fortunately, I play in bands where a 25 or 30w B-15 does just fine for my volume needs. I can appreciate you're pretty happy with your B-15R, but not everyone needs 100w, so it ain't hype.