Ampeg PF350/500 Part V

[stiles72]

In this day and age of Youtube, I'm surprised someone hasn't made a video showing how their PF500 cuts out, along with what their settings are. I still can't make mine cut out.

[PrietoBass]

Originally Posted by Woodstockz

Ampeg probably should have had a more extensive Beta testing program before releasing these products.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Ampeg should not treat early adopters as beta testers. Once customer trust in a product/company is gone, no number of analogies can bring that trust back...

[MLC_BassPlayer]

Originally Posted by Woodstockz

These chips can go into fault mode for many reasons like trip point too sensitive, power supply ripple, stray magnetic fields, flakey sensors, compromised parts due to heating during the solder process, circuit board issues, etc. The list goes on.

Here is an analogy. In the '80's, I had a Toyota that had a camshaft belt instead of a timing chain. Those belts broke. Should I not buy Toyotas, or should I not buy cars with cam belts. Or should I not buy Toyotas with cam belts.

Not quite the same. In your analogy, only the fan belt is failing. In real life, these Ampegs "go into fault mode for many reasons". Equating the two would mean the car breaks down because of a timing belt, bad water pump, suspect head gaskets, bad lower bearings or anything else.

If the amp were a car, there may have been a recall by now. If Ampeg really cared they would offer some sort of preventative maintenance or trade-in program.

YMMV.

This option is void....

[gReEnBuL]

Originally Posted by stiles72

In this day and age of Youtube, I'm surprised someone hasn't made a video showing how their PF500 cuts out, along with what their settings are. I still can't make mine cut out.

Hmmm! I've been following this thread from the beginning and that's something I've never even pondered until now. I've seen videos for the Micro SVT-CL as well as many other brands of amp, but not one PF-500 cut out video.....there are a few videos about how good it is but none about it cutting out.......I wanna see!

[JimmyM]

Well the worst that happens if your amp goes out is your show gets delayed while you work out an alternate solution. Maybe if they were resulting in accidents with injury or leaving people stranded in the middle of nowhere, I might be able to equate the two

I don't know, guys...for the last year and a half, my PF350's been a virtual tank, even surviving being dropped. I know a lot of folks successfully operating PF500's as well. I'm not going to pretend it doesn't suck when it happens to you, nor ignore what's been reported over the last couple of years, but Ampeg's been quite good about warranty issues and I see a lot less complaints on here about newer PF heads. If they weren't addressing the broken heads, it'd be a different story.

[ddbassGA]

1 year, 9 months gigging a PF500 and not a hint of trouble.

[Woodstockz]

Originally Posted by MLC_BassPlayer

Not quite the same. In your analogy, only the fan belt is failing.

Timing belt, not fan belt.

You are missing the point. If an established company with established product lines comes out with a new technology [like timing belts instead of chains, or class D amps instead of tubes] and that new technology fails, do you stop buying products from that company, or do you stop buying products with that new technology?

[P Town]

I have had no trouble with my PF500, but I am worried that it will have problems some day, (out of warranty, of course).

I plan to request a schematic from them, and will scope some signals, and take some dc voltage readings on it while it works, so I will have a better chance of fixing it if it does fail.

[MLC_BassPlayer]

Apparently reading is not one of my stronger skills.

Yes, from the consumer side, I agree with continuing to buy from the established company yet staying away from products with that new technology.

From the company's side, however, I do believe it is fair to wonder why, given that one of their particular products tends to have an unusual failure rate, the company does not do something to help purchasers of that product. The recall scenario applies.

FWIW, I own both a PF-350 and a PF-500. The PF-500 is one of my rehearsal amps, playing through a 4 ohm Avatar 212 neo. So far, no issues.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by MLC_BassPlayer

FWIW, I own both a PF-350 and a PF-500. The PF-500 is one of my rehearsal amps, playing through a 4 ohm Avatar 212 neo. So far, no issues.

There you go then.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by MLC_BassPlayer

Yes, from the consumer side, I agree with continuing to buy from the established company yet staying away from products with that new technology.

Whoa there Class D power amps have been around for YEARS and YEARS and are as reliable as any other tried and true technology. There are MANY class D/SMPS bass amps out there with very, very, very few failures.

There are 'questionable executions' and like with any other technology, there are products that are reliable and ones that aren't (sometimes within the same company).

Also, remember that an unreliable or problem product does not in any way mean '100% failure of all units'. Even the worst products have many more units that don't fail than do fail. It is all about the 'probability of failure' (i.e., the failure rate).

[Thehound]

"new" meaning these class d technology micro or mini heads that i read massive threads on reliability. i cant afford the risk it really sucked plugging into the PA.
i own the pf210 cab still which I wont part with, even considering getting another.

Originally Posted by Woodstockz

I am sorry to hear about your bad luck. I agree with you about reliability.

I am wondering what you mean when you say "new". Do you mean brand new out of the box, or do you mean Ampeg with new technology? If you mean new out of the box, Ampeg's other products are pretty stable, and sound good. The PF500/350 issue shouldn't affect your decision on other products lines that aren't class D.

The Ampeg PF 500 and 350 use class D chips that are new technology products and still need to have the bugs worked out. We are still in the early stages of the product life cycle. Ampeg probably should have had a more extensive Beta testing program before releasing these products.

These chips can go into fault mode for many reasons like trip point too sensitive, power supply ripple, stray magnetic fields, flakey sensors, compromised parts due to heating during the solder process, circuit board issues, etc. The list goes on.

Here is an analogy. In the '80's, I had a Toyota that had a camshaft belt instead of a timing chain. Those belts broke. Should I not buy Toyotas, or should I not buy cars with cam belts. Or should I not buy Toyotas with cam belts.

[Thehound]

wish i could have posted the same thing i loved mine.

Originally Posted by stiles72

In this day and age of Youtube, I'm surprised someone hasn't made a video showing how their PF500 cuts out, along with what their settings are. I still can't make mine cut out.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Thehound

"new" meaning these class d technology micro or mini heads that i read massive threads on reliability. i cant afford the risk it really sucked plugging into the PA.
i own the pf210 cab still which I wont part with, even considering getting another.

Again, not true. Class D is decades old and reliable as heck. Certain brands (Ampeg, GK) seem to have problems with this technology, but most others are solid as a rock. Been gigging class D/SMPS amps since the early 90's.

Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are some brands I would not purchase, but to 'not purchase an entire class of technology' would really take some amazing options off the table. Again, Genz, Markbass, Aguilar, etc..... solid as a rock with very few issues reported of the years.

[stiles72]

Not to discount legitimate problems, but I also wonder how many folks who experience cutouts may actually be experiencing something else, and in the heat of a gig, blame a momentary lapse in sound on the dreaded "PF500 cutting out issue" rather than taking time to troubleshoot or diagnose the problem. When I have encountered "cut outs" , they have been caused by bad cords, loose input jacks, weakening batteries in my bass or pedals, the wireless unit dropping out, me stepping on my tuner pedal, and other gremlins rather than the amp itself flaking out. A bass rig has many components, and the more pieces there are in the chain, the more chance there is for something to go wrong. That is why I would love to see a video of someone using a simple setup such as P-bass/cord/PF500/speaker cord/cab to show what is happening, and that the problem can be replicated.

[ddbassGA]

Originally Posted by stiles72

Not to discount legitimate problems, but I also wonder how many folks who experience cutouts may actually be experiencing something else, and in the heat of a gig, blame a momentary lapse in sound on the dreaded "PF500 cutting out issue" rather than taking time to troubleshoot or diagnose the problem. When I have encountered "cut outs" , they have been caused by bad cords, loose input jacks, weakening batteries in my bass or pedals, the wireless unit dropping out, me stepping on my tuner pedal, and other gremlins rather than the amp itself flaking out...

I had Two scares and immediately, based on this thread, assumed it was the PF cutting out or dying. First was battery in an active bass that died during set. I had a second bass and finished the song, and set. Second time I stepped on my cord and pulled the plug out of my Boss stage tuner. The PF has never failed so my immediate assumption now will be a battery or cable, not the head.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by stiles72

Not to discount legitimate problems, but I also wonder how many folks who experience cutouts may actually be experiencing something else, and in the heat of a gig, blame a momentary lapse in sound on the dreaded "PF500 cutting out issue" rather than taking time to troubleshoot or diagnose the problem. When I have encountered "cut outs" , they have been caused by bad cords, loose input jacks, weakening batteries in my bass or pedals, the wireless unit dropping out, me stepping on my tuner pedal, and other gremlins rather than the amp itself flaking out. A bass rig has many components, and the more pieces there are in the chain, the more chance there is for something to go wrong. That is why I would love to see a video of someone using a simple setup such as P-bass/cord/PF500/speaker cord/cab to show what is happening, and that the problem can be replicated.

Mine didn't 'cut out' it simply ceased to work altogether. Took it back to the GC and they could not make it work either.

[Bass 45]

Sounds like what you are describing is not the "cut out" issue.

[Grateful]

So I had a rehearsal w/the PF-500. The chaind was: Basses>Bassbone>amp, with that running through a studio provided Ampeg 210HE and 410H (4ohm total).

No shortage of volume, that is for sure. I kept the gain at about 2 o'clock with the red light blinking most of the time. Loved the tone, portability and all that stuff.

Here is my question (also posted in a B3 thread):

Whenever I run my Zoom B3 pedal in the effects loop, it clips like crazy, regardless of where I set the output level of the pedal. It's as if the effects out is overdriving the pedal. I want to be able to drive the pre but still use the effects loop. It's fine running in front of the amp. I plan on playing with the active/passive setting on the pedal itself later, along with running it through my 4-Pro. My guess is that the pedal doesn't like being in the fx loop. I am not saying there is a problem with the PF,I was just wondering if there is anything I need to know re: the effects loop on the PF-500 or Ampegs in general.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Grateful

So I had a rehearsal w/the PF-500. The chaind was: Basses>Bassbone>amp, with that running through a studio provided Ampeg 210HE and 410H (4ohm total).

No shortage of volume, that is for sure. I kept the gain at about 2 o'clock with the red light blinking most of the time. Loved the tone, portability and all that stuff.

Here is my question (also posted in a B3 thread):

Whenever I run my Zoom B3 pedal in the effects loop, it clips like crazy, regardless of where I set the output level of the pedal. It's as if the effects out is overdriving the pedal. I want to be able to drive the pre but still use the effects loop. It's fine running in front of the amp. I plan on playing with the active/passive setting on the pedal itself later, along with running it through my 4-Pro. My guess is that the pedal doesn't like being in the fx loop. I am not saying there is a problem with the PF,I was just wondering if there is anything I need to know re: the effects loop on the PF-500 or Ampegs in general.

You really don't want to put, for lack of a better term, 'lower quality' pedal type units in the effects loop. The effects loop outputs a much hotter signal from the effects send output than a bass guitar puts into an effect pedal. If you have a high quality, rack mount type effects unit, the effects loop works great. For the Zoom type pedal units, put the unit between your bass and amp input and it will work fine.

This is not specific to Ampeg at all.