Ampeg PF350/500 Part VI

[TUEP]

Dang...I was thinking about getting one of these and now I am probably going to look for something else.

[carl h.]

Originally Posted by TUEP

Dang...I was thinking about getting one of these and now I am probably going to look for something else.

YEAH, only morons (I own 2 which work flawlessly so far) buy these!

[TUEP]

Originally Posted by carl h.

YEAH, only morons (I own 2 which work flawlessly so far) buy these!

Whats the factory warranty on these?

BTW: The more I think about it....these have been out for sometime now...you think a company like Ampeg would of already fixed what ever was going wrong with them.

In your opinio do think many of these were going out due to user error?

[carl h.]

I'd strongly suspect user error as a factor. There is a specific routine for setting levels which must be followed so it is a bit fussy, but when you get it set, it works well. It takes all of 20 seconds to set the level, so I don't consider it a big deal - but I don't loan it out either, I have other gear that is almost indestructible for that - but it doesn't sound as nice to my ears.

[TUEP]

Originally Posted by carl h.

I'd strongly suspect user error as a factor. There is a specific routine for setting levels which must be followed so it is a bit fussy, but when you get it set, it works well. It takes all of 20 seconds to set the level, so I don't consider it a big deal - but I don't loan it out either, I have other gear that is almost indestructible for that - but it doesn't sound as nice to my ears.

Can you educate me on this level setting your speaking off. I am familiar with the amp...and am always wanting to learn proper procedure. I am very interested in what you have to say in regards to this.

[carl h.]

Initially, turn the volume off on the amp and max out the signal coming from your bass. Turn the compressor off and play the bass as hard as you see yourself playing and set the gain level just below where the light comes on. (This part is my own take) Then turn up the volume, adjust the tone controls to what suits you, turn the volume down and check the gain setting to make sure it is just under where the light comes on. Then I add a bit of compression - it is so subtle that for many months I thought it wasn't working! Turn the volume up - the last few degrees of rotation are where the sound comes on fast so don't be afraid to turn it up. Some don't turn it up high enough and are convinced it lacks power, but it has plenty! Just turn it up.

[joelb79]

I had a great night with my PF-500. Not much knob twisting; just doing its thing like it does; all nice and fat with plenty of punch. I dug it, the crowd dug it. No drummer, and the volume was below noon. I rarely change my gain I found the sweet spot and use it all the time. It's still not covering the loud gigs like I would like it to.

Originally Posted by arai

In this thread about 40% of pf500 owners had their amp cut out

Portaflex cutting out poll

Not likely an accurate sample.

My new amp has only cut out once matter of a few seconds. FWIW I seem to be the only guy reporting a revision D main board right now. Others will chime it. It seems reliable and indestructible through the PF cabinets. My buddy with his older PF-500 has no problems through a PF-210 and he has been beating the crap out of it since i reported my problems to him. He always looks at me funny when I say the problems I've had.

I just might be one of those really challenging guys to design an amp for. I'd say I have over 20db of dynamic range at a gig with compression.

[Grateful]

I had a rehearsal last night and figured I'd run a test with the PF-500 to try and see if I could make it fail.

The rig:
18v active bass w/nickels>ZoomB3 (with +10db or so boost via 'exciter')>PF-500>810e 4ohm

Amp settings:
15db pad OFF (comin' in hot!)
compression ~9 o'clock
gain 4 o'clock (red light pretty much constant, with the threshold light coming on occasionally.
eq pretty much flat
on a couple of songs I kicked on the Ultra High
Volume never past 11-12 o'clock or so as to not be a d-bag and drown out the band...

Rehearsal went for ~3 hours and I never had any type of cut out or drop out. It did sound great, though.

I am really looking forward to cranking this through my 2x PF-115LF rig...

[carl h.]

You're not the first to report such findings, but it sure isn't the accepted way to run the rig. If I needed the volume I'd give it a try, but I'll just stick to what is working well for me. It is plenty loud enough.

[Grateful]

Originally Posted by carl h.

You're not the first to report such findings, but it sure isn't the accepted way to run the rig. If I needed the volume I'd give it a try, but I'll just stick to what is working well for me. It is plenty loud enough.

I don't run it that way. The point of the exercise last night was to really push the preamp part of the amp in hopes of revealing any nasty surprises.

My settings are waaaay different....

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by carl h.

Initially, turn the volume off on the amp and max out the signal coming from your bass. Turn the compressor off and play the bass as hard as you see yourself playing and set the gain level just below where the light comes on. (This part is my own take) Then turn up the volume, adjust the tone controls to what suits you, turn the volume down and check the gain setting to make sure it is just under where the light comes on. Then I add a bit of compression - it is so subtle that for many months I thought it wasn't working! Turn the volume up - the last few degrees of rotation are where the sound comes on fast so don't be afraid to turn it up. Some don't turn it up high enough and are convinced it lacks power, but it has plenty! Just turn it up.

Originally Posted by carl h.

I'd strongly suspect user error as a factor. There is a specific routine for setting levels which must be followed so it is a bit fussy, but when you get it set, it works well.

I am going to strongly disagree! It's not user error in my case. I always set my gain this way. this has little effect on the cutting out. As I have stated the clip light never lights up on mine when the cutting out happens, neither does the protect light come on. It just goes silent for 3 seconds then starts back up again after I stop playing. Highly annoying because there seems to be no rhyme or reason for it; but it only happens at higher volume levels. I can't stare at my clip/protect lights all night either tho.

[JimmyM]

Well that's you, Joel, and I do believe there were some totally legit instances of cutouts for no reason. But I've also heard many stories on here from folks winding them up as loud and boosted as they can possibly go, then blaming Ampeg for getting a cutout. Not a fan of the cutout protection scheme, but a lot of micros besides Ampeg do that, too, and given the choice of it momentarily cutting out or overheating and smoking, I'll take the momentary cutout.

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Well that's you, Joel, and I do believe there were some totally legit instances of cutouts for no reason. But I've also heard many stories on here from folks winding them up as loud and boosted as they can possibly go, then blaming Ampeg for getting a cutout. Not a fan of the cutout protection scheme, but a lot of micros besides Ampeg do that, too, and given the choice of it momentarily cutting out or overheating and smoking, I'll take the momentary cutout.

I'm keeping score here:

Lead Sled 1 point
Micro Head -1 point.

Given the choice of cutout or no cutouts, I'll give up the "micro" idea. If I was a designer, and give these amps a bigger heatsink with possibly more air movement (bigger fan=more CFM) through them so those momentary "heat ups" wouldn't require 3 seconds of silence over and over; they would just simply be handled by ACTIVE cooling, not signal dropping.

FWIW: The chassis of the Ampeg PF-500 is where all the weight is. The boards and heat sinks are small and lightweight. The fan is small as well. This is the main reason why it weighs 11lbs vs the lighter competition, and perhaps could be why it shuts down. I don't think they overloaded the heatsinks with mosfets, but they could have put more heatsinks in them and arranged them for better airflow.

I've been trying to read the schematic all day to find the culprit for the cut-outs but it's eluding me.

[JimmyM]

I would have zero clue Kind of agree that thermal shutdown isn't the best protection scheme for micros out there, but not an issue with me and my wuss volumes.

[P Town]

I don't play guitar, but I bought an abused Mexican Strat, and fixed it a little, and tried it through my PF 500, and find the PF is a great sounding guitar amp too. I ran the gain higher than I run my basses, and that low end Fender put a smile on my face. Anyone else use theirs for guitar?

[SpectorDetector]

Question: Does the aux input put out stereo sound when used with the headphone out or is it convert it to mono since it's a mono amp? I am just talking about when headphones are used. I looked at the .pdf manual, but it doesn't specifically say.

[SkiFor3]

Originally Posted by SpectorDetector

Question: Does the aux input put out stereo sound when used with the headphone out or is it convert it to mono since it's a mono amp? I am just talking about when headphones are used. I looked at the .pdf manual, but it doesn't specifically say.

Yea its stereo.

[SpectorDetector]

Originally Posted by SkiFor3

Yea its stereo.

Thanks

[SkiFor3]

One thing to add if you are not familiar with this amp. The only way to listen to the "audio in" is through headphones. You can't play through the cab. So if you want to practice along with tunes on your iPod you need to use headphones.

The line in is very hot and I need to have the volume on my phone set very low. Other than that it sounds great through the amp. My bass through the headphones sounds great too.

[SpectorDetector]

Thanks for the additional info. I'm having a tough time coming to grips with 3 amp options:
#1 New PF350 from local dealer (no cab yet, must use headphones) Would get the PF-210 at a later date.

#2 GK MB112II, mostly a good idea, has speaker of course, but lack of gain control to dial in dirt leaves me a bit cold, no boost either ( I used to own a MB210 and had to sell it about a year ago, so got used to those features). It also does the headphone/iPod thing. I know I'd end up having to get a VTBass pedal to get the sound I want.

#3 Used PF500, can get one for about $300 very slightly used. Has more features than the PF350, wouldn't need a compressor or the VTBass. Even has an extended warranty at GC in case I have any of the issues mentioned here on TB. Again, would get a PF-210 eventually.

Right now I need to use primarily headphones. I am using a Zoom B3 right now but have to use my work laptop to play along with music through the USB port, rather use my iPod. Also, not CRAZY about all the effects, give me a good warm analog type sound and I am good, never really use effects except fora bit of chorus now and again.

Any incite or advice welcome.