Ampeg SVT-2 (Non-Pro) Sounds Too Muddy

Scrappersa · #1 12-10-2010, 01:27 AM

Hey guys, I recently bought an older SVT-2. I brought it to my tech and picked it up today. He biased it and installed 6 new JJ KT88s and replaced a few of the preamp tubes. I brought it home and played it before and during band practice through my Gallien Krueger 410SBX and 115SBX with a stock 1999 Fender Precision MIM. When I was practicing earlier, I had the volume at about 10 o'clock. For some reason, it seems like I am driving the tubes too quickly and my bass starts to sound muddy. I am all over the place with my playing. I love to dig in hard and I play very hard, but I also like to play soft. When I played chords softly (like a C on the E string and an E on the G string), it sounded way too muddy and overdriven.

I've been playing through a GK Backline 600 for the past 5 years. I just started playing a Precision a few months ago and I thought it sounded too muddy through the GK as well. But, I play the same bass through my Acoustic B20 practice amp and it is my favorite tone in the whole entire world no matter how I play. My drummer's brother has an Ampeg 810 cab that at some point I will be able to run it through, but I'm not sure when it will happen.

What could be causing this problem? Do you guys think it could be the stock pickup, the cab, the head?

faulknersj · #2 12-10-2010, 01:47 AM

How is your head EQed? Where is the tone knob at on your P bass?

Son of Bovril · #3 12-10-2010, 01:49 AM

it's easy to get a good tone out of a practice amp in your bedroom, but you will find that same tone doesn't actually sound so good in a mix, and also when you turn an amp up to gigging levels the tone changes quite a bit as you start pushing amps and speakers.

what you are probably hearing is all the extra harmonics in the low end that make it sound muddy, hence why it is generally recommended that sealed cabs be used with tube amps as they seem tighter and are better at controlling the low end

Thats the nature of a tube amp...

Scrappersa · #4 12-10-2010, 01:51 AM

I have the graphic EQ turned off and everything on the basic EQ on the amp is set at 12 o'clock. My tone on my bass is turned all the way up. I should have mentioned that it sounds muddy when I play alone and when I play with my band. It sounds amazing through my combo amp though with the same settings on my bass.

Scrappersa · #5 12-10-2010, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

it's easy to get a good tone out of a practice amp in your bedroom, but you will find that same tone doesn't actually sound so good in a mix, and also when you turn an amp up to gigging levels the tone changes quite a bit as you start pushing amps and speakers.

what you are probably hearing is all the extra harmonics in the low end that make it sound muddy, hence why it is generally recommended that sealed cabs be used with tube amps as they seem tighter and are better at controlling the low end

Thats the nature of a tube amp...

I might just take my head to the music shop tomorrow and run it through some of the cabs to see if that fixes my problem. I will also play a few different basses through it to narrow down the problem.

faulknersj · #6 12-10-2010, 02:35 AM

That sounds like a good idea. Also, P basses are notorious for needing a bit of a mid boost...I would experiment with the graphic EQ a bit so that you can get a real sense of what the bass sounds like with different frequencies boosted. That head should sound great with the Ampeg 8 x 10 (a sealed cab)...keep us posted!

i_got_a_mohawk · #7 12-10-2010, 02:40 AM

You haven't pressed in the ultra-low have you?

I found it to be pretty muddy when playing solo/at home but in the band situation it sounded awesome!

The amp does get very loud, very quickly, if you want an extra bit of volume control you can use the gain slider on the graphic eq.

Have to agree that cab choice will have a bit impact on tone, but at the same time, these amps aren't designed to be completelly crystal clear! (well, not as they stand, using a mic pre tho, woof!)

Scrappersa · #8 12-10-2010, 02:45 AM

I tried out the ultra-low but it made it too low and sub sounding. I'll mess around with it more and I'll try boosting the mids in the graphic EQ tomorrow.

I'm going to try it out with a few different cabs as soon as I get a chance. I've heard the SVT-CL through a sealed cab and it sounded amazing.

i_got_a_mohawk · #9 12-10-2010, 04:38 AM

That's what I was meaning, that the ultra-low may have been the source of your mud, just on the off chance

anderbass · #10 12-10-2010, 10:20 AM

I'd suggest boosting your mid tone knob up to around 3/4 first and then trying all the frequency knob settings. Then once you find a frequency setting you like re-adjust the mid knob to taste. I've gigged that same model amp for years and learned to only use the EQ for special situations, not getting your basic sound.

Its completely normal for that amp to start breaking up with the volume knob around 10 o'clock. I usually prefer my bass and treble knobs near centered too, but you'll find higher mid knob settings will give you more cut and clarity allowing lower volume knob settings when you want a cleaner sound.

JGR · #11 12-10-2010, 12:59 PM

Does your tech know what he is doing? How did it sound before you took it to him? Did he accidently sub an ax7 for an au7?

NecroticImbecil · #12 12-10-2010, 02:09 PM

If your Precision sounds too muddy through 2 of your 3 amps, could it be that you just prefer the sound of it through your combo?

Does your Ampeg have only the one volume knob, or is there a gain knob as well? I saw only mention of one volume setting. If you have a gain knob (or channel volume, or similarly labeled) you could try running that one lower. I'm not familiar with the non-Pro.

My Pro II sounded muddy compared to the Genz Benz I had at the time. I atttributed the difference to it being a completely different head, designed with different tonal goals in mind. Maybe I was wrong - haven't heard any others in person to compare. It was a good sounding mud though. Have you heard other amps of the same model as yours used with a similar bass to compare your tone to? The scientific method would be to use your bass, your cabs, you playing but with another head to eliminate any other factors. That's probably impossible, but hearing another example of the same head would be some help to you I think.

Scrappersa · #13 12-10-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

That's what I was meaning, that the ultra-low may have been the source of your mud, just on the off chance

I only really tried the ultra-low but I played through practice without it on.

Quote:

I'd suggest boosting your mid tone knob up to around 3/4 first and then trying all the frequency knob settings. Then once you find a frequency setting you like re-adjust the mid knob to taste. I've gigged that same model amp for years and learned to only use the EQ for special situations, not getting your basic sound.

Its completely normal for that amp to start breaking up with the volume knob around 10 o'clock. I usually prefer my bass and treble knobs near centered too, but you'll find higher mid knob settings will give you more cut and clarity allowing lower volume knob settings when you want a cleaner sound.

I'm going to try this today when I get over to my drummer's house.

Quote:

Does your tech know what he is doing? How did it sound before you took it to him? Did he accidently sub an ax7 for an au7?

I'll take a look inside the head, but I really trust my tech. He's been fixing gear for over 30 years and has been doing it for many of my favorite bands. I've worked with him before and the gear he fixed sounds incredible. But, he may have replaced one of the ax7's with an au7.

Quote:

If your Precision sounds too muddy through 2 of your 3 amps, could it be that you just prefer the sound of it through your combo?

Does your Ampeg have only the one volume knob, or is there a gain knob as well? I saw only mention of one volume setting. If you have a gain knob (or channel volume, or similarly labeled) you could try running that one lower. I'm not familiar with the non-Pro.

My Pro II sounded muddy compared to the Genz Benz I had at the time. I atttributed the difference to it being a completely different head, designed with different tonal goals in mind. Maybe I was wrong - haven't heard any others in person to compare. It was a good sounding mud though. Have you heard other amps of the same model as yours used with a similar bass to compare your tone to? The scientific method would be to use your bass, your cabs, you playing but with another head to eliminate any other factors. That's probably impossible, but hearing another example of the same head would be some help to you I think.

This is where I was kind of concerned. For a second I thought that maybe I did just prefer the combo amp's sound. But I've heard and played the SVT-CL at loud volume before. I've read that the CL and 2 and very similar so I was hoping that it wouldn't be THIS much of a difference. When I tested it out, I was running through a different cab and a different (active) bass. I'm going to bring my active bass to test out the amp later today. On this head, there is only a volume knob. There is not a gain or master volume. It's an older SVT-2. I'm going to do some experimenting today and tomorrow with different cabs and basses and see where it leads me.

Thanks for all of the help guys. I really appreciate it. You're giving me some great ideas.

punkrocko · #14 12-10-2010, 03:16 PM

I think it’s your cabs. The all tube SVT’s really shine with the sealed 810 cabs. I use to run my II non pro through an Avatar stack. I found it to be too dark with the vented cabs. The fridge will tighten the sound up for you.

joeydavidson · #15 12-10-2010, 03:40 PM

Ya, I bet it will sound more distinct and louder through a sealed 810.

Scrappersa · #16 12-10-2010, 06:36 PM

Okay guys, today I brought it into GC and tried out a bunch of different combos.

I ran my SVT-2 through the 410HLF and the 810. It sounded way better on single notes but it still became overdriven way too easily. I also ran it through a couple of the Markbass cabs and I had the same problem. I figured I would try a couple of different heads to see if it was a problem with my head. I tried the SVT-CL and the SVT-3 and I still had the same problem. I even ran a Gallien Krueger 1001rb and I still had the same problem. I tried playing an active p-bass special and it sounded significantly better, but it had the same problem. I messed with the mids on every amp and nothing drastically improved.

I've come to the conclusion that my amp works perfectly. I had the same exact problem with every head I tried playing with different basses (but both were precisions). I tried my Schecter through the SVT-2 and my GK cabs and I had the same problem.

The guy at GC said the only way I could really solve the problem would be to run my bass amp at a lower volume and then to mic it through a PA. I really don't think that's the only way to get the sound that I want.

I kind of feel like I have a better understanding of what I want, but I really don't know where to go next. I only time I don't have this issue (with any amp) is when I play at a significantly lower volume.

mikeldtl · #17 12-10-2010, 08:05 PM

I would try a lower gain tube in the V1 position. I like the 5751 for a good compromise. I have a 1992 SVT II and a few cabs, definitely tightened up the sound when I switched to 5751. Pre tubes are fairly cheap and you can get a good Sylvania or similar tube for <$30 easy, all day long.

BigMac5 · #18 12-10-2010, 08:10 PM

How loud are you running the amp? What were your volume/gain settings when testing the amp?

JimmyM · #19 12-11-2010, 01:36 AM

when you set all the controls at noon on an svt, the frequency response has a big midbass hump starting at 100 hz, and it's a gradual diagonal line downward from there on out. so you have to twist eq knobs. i'm able to get a pretty close to flat response out of most svt's by putting bass on 11:00, treble at 2:00, mids 2:30 or 3:00 @ 800 hz (middle position). you might try that as a starting point and tweak it to your own tastes from there. don't be shy with those knobs and graphic.

JGR · #20 12-11-2010, 04:51 PM

Still sounds like the bias is out of whack or one of the new tubes went bad.