Ampeg SVT-3 Pro vs B2RE

[RandyRyan]

Greetings!
I am in the market for a new amp and I am going to get an Ampeg. I used to be the proud (but tired) owner of the all-tube SVT-2 (not pro) and it sounded great but weighed over 90lbs! The other drawback was that it only had a volume knob without a separate gain knob so you really had to crank it loud to get any "grind" out of it. Of course by then, the whole band would be whining about "Turn it down!", blah, blah, "I just soiled myself", blah, blah.

Anyway, I sold that and got a Mesa Boogie Walkabout. Great amp and very light! Had to sell it to pay some bills, though. So, now I am wanting another amp and I love the Ampeg tone so I thought that I would go hybrid and try out the SVT-3 Pro. I did some research and thought that it was interesting how you could change the tube plate voltage to tailor your sound. The odd thing, though, is that both the manual and the video on Ampeg's website both agree that turning the knob all the way clockwise (Tube Gain is MAXED) will give you more of a SOLID-STATE sound. So, I figured that I would be leaving the knob all the way off because I want that tube sound, right?

So, I go the local Guitar Center to try out the Ampeg SVT-3 Pro and I hook up a Fender Precision and start noodling around with the Tube Gain all the way off. Sounded, "okay". Not really blowing me away. So then I crank it all the way up and "VOILA" the amp comes alive and starts to sing! What gives? I am confused or is Ampeg? To me, the difference in tone was night-and-day. It sounded MUCH more musical with the knob cranked. Does this mean that I should get a B2RE and that I am really a "solid-state guy"? I remember trying one years ago and being surprised at how good it sounded when paired with a 10" cab and that it didn't sound all that different than my SVT-2!

I know that there is much debate over tubes vs. solid state and each has its pros and cons but I go with my EARS and what sounds good to ME. All I can say is that the SVT-3 Pro sounded MUCH better (with my personal settings) with the TUBE Gain knob cranked.

Has anyone else dealt with this? Obviously, the best answer would be to "A/B" the two amps but Guitar Center doesn't have the B2RE.

[Gearhead17]

The 3 PRO and B2RE are two different amps. Nothing alike. The 3 PRO sounds like the 2 PRO at lower volumes and the B2RE sounds like a cold/sterile version of the Ampeg tone.

Whatever is being said about the Tube Gain knob - ignore it. Just like you should ignore how to set the Gain knob as stated in the Ampeg manual. The tube gain control all the way up brings in some of that tube growl that you like at a more manageable volume.

Don't bother trying the B2RE - it's not a warm sounding amp at all. It does not have any of the tubeb growl the 3 PRO gives you.

[stiles72]

+1 to ignoring the red signal light. It's not a clip light - just a signal light. Set your input gain so that red light flashes with every strong note. Otherwise you arent getting a good strong signal into the amp, and likely not getting much to the FOH board if you are using the XLR out.

With regards to the plate voltage (tube gain), set it however you like. Dino does a good job in the Ampeg videos of explaining what it does, and when the amp is turned up you can hear a difference between all the way up and all the way down. I prefer the all the way down tone - but in live situations I find myself bumping it up to 10:00 - 12:00 to give me just a little more definition.

For years I ran the plate voltage all the way up, because I was running my input gain way too low, and paid too much attention to the idiot light. Once you crank the input you start to play around with the subtleties of the tube gain. If you like it cranked up, run it all the way up. I think Dino says in the video "it's like giving the tubes a shot of caffine" lol

The B2RE doesn't have as many bells and whistles as the 3-Pro, and doesn't have the multi tube preamp. That doesn't mean it flat out sucks - I heard a guy in a country band that rocked one through an 810 and it sounded perfect for what he was doing. Generally speaking though, the 3-Pro will be a better amp all around.

[jackcheez]

In my experience (used both in backline several times over the years) the SVT3-Pro is a much better sounding amp.

[kranahan]

that video confused me as well. when i owned the svt3-pro i cranked the tube voltage because i thought it sounded the best. i would go for the 3pro in your instance.

[stiles72]

When the tube gain is all the way to the left, the power amp driver tube voltage is lower producing more of a darker tone. This is more consistent with tube amps. When the gain is cranked to the right, there is more voltage feeding the poweramp section like a solid state amp, and so the tone is more articulate. On the older SVT-III, this knob was actually labled "Plate Voltage".

[Billy3000]

I agree, I like the SVT 3 over the B2 any day of the week. The B2 really can't even compare at all. I played a show on one of my friends' SVT 3 once because we put together this kind of on the fly show and had to save as much time as possible between bands so we all shared the same amps, so I used his rig, and was pretty surprised at how close of a tone I got to my SVT 2 pro. I mean it still didn't really knock me back enough to make me consider trading my 2 pro for a 3 pro, but I did like the sound that I got out of it. I had the tube gain knob set around 12:00 or 1:00 and liked it that way.

[behemecoytl]

Originally Posted by stiles72

When the tube gain is all the way to the left, the power amp driver tube voltage is lower producing more of a darker tone. This is more consistent with tube amps. When the gain is cranked to the right, there is more voltage feeding the poweramp section like a solid state amp, and so the tone is more articulate. On the older SVT-III, this knob was actually labled "Plate Voltage".

I think there is confusion on this. I haven't checked the manual (and apparently it might be wrong), and I don't know the mechanics of it...

but my ears tell me that the Tube Gain knob, turned all the way to the right- clockwise as far as it can go, is the fuzzy Tube tone.

edit: just watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMIi1UV151w) and the guy says left is Tube and right is solid state, but he also says that the Tube Gain, all the way to the right, pumps 300v to the Tubes "shot of caffine..." which makes it more like a Solid State?? makes no sense to me.

[stiles72]

I think the "Tube Gain" wins the award for "Most Misunderstood Feature On An Ampeg". Here's what the manual says:

"13. TUBE GAIN: The tube gain control varies the
high voltage supply to the power amp tubes. This
allows a variety of tonal response characteristics from
the power amp and replaces the limiter found on typical
solid state power amps. At “10” the voltage is at
maximum, providing a dynamic, highly responsive
tone. At “0” the voltage is at minimum, offering a thickened,
more compressed tone. This tone can also be
distorted, depending on volume level. In between settings
are best for preventing harsh distortion when
driving the power amp to its limits. The effect of this
control increases from moderate to dramatic as the
power amp is driven harder.
NOTE: When adjusting the tube gain control from
“10” to “0” rapidly, a low frequency hum as well as
muting of the output signal occur simultaneously. This
is due to shifting of the DC bias point of the tubes, and
is no cause for concern. Adjusting the control quickly
from “0” to “10” brings a moderate delay due to the
power supply capacitors charging."

[pbassnut]

The 3-Pro is the vastly better sounding amp compared to the B2-RE, IMHO. I had one and I always ran the "plate voltage" control cranked all the way up ... that was the best sound to my ear. I got rid of my 3-Pro due to reliability problems ... the sound was excellent. I now have a B2-RE that I got pretty cheap offa eBay. It is kinda sterile sounding on its own. However, I use it with an Ampeg SVP-CL preamp plugged into its "poweramp in" jack and it sounds great that way and is probably roughly equivalent to the SVT 3-Pro sound (only with less overdrive capabilities).

[RandyRyan]

Good! I'm glad to know that I'm not crazy! Actually, the knob is pretty intuitive. Turning up the "Tube Gain" drives the tubes harder and makes it sound more like a tube amp. It's that stupid Ampeg manual and the video saying that it makes it respond more like a "solid-state" that makes it confusing. All I know is that the more you crank it, you can actually hear more harmonics appear and the amp "sings" as it jumps to life! I'll definitely save up the extra bread to get the SVT-3 because I would be totally let down to get an amp that sounded like it does with the "Tube Gain" turned down.

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by behemecoytl

...but my ears tell me that the Tube Gain knob, turned all the way to the right- clockwise as far as it can go, is the fuzzy Tube tone...

WRONG! . . . Not true . . . "the fuzzy Tube tone" is when the tube gain knob is at minimum = 0

Originally Posted by RandyRyan

...Turning up the "Tube Gain" drives the tubes harder and makes it sound more like a tube amp...

ALSO WRONG! . . . the SVT-3PRO "sound(s) more like a tube amp" with the Tube Gain knob between 10 and 1 (as on a clock's face)

Originally Posted by RandyRyan

...All I know is that the more you crank it, you can actually hear more harmonics appear and the amp "sings" as it jumps to life!...

That's what I think, too . . . but it's NOT more tubey sounding . . . . . .

[RandyRyan]

Then what the hell is "Tubey" sounding? If someone blindfolded me and diddled with the knob, I would guess that the Tube Gain all the way up sounds fuller and has extra harmonics. In fact, it sounded the closest to my ALL-tube SVT-2.That is why I say it sounds more like a tube-amp. Keep in mind that we may favor different sounds. I enjoy the bass knob rolled off to around 11 O'Clock, the style (or midrange select) knob all the way to the left and crank the midrange knob around 3 o'clock, and treble flat (NO ULtra Lo or Hi and NO Compression.

[80'sRocker]

I've owned both and I'm sorry I sold my Ampeg B2RE, nice simple amp. The SVT 3 is nice too. I'm currently using an SVT-4 Pro. Impressed but not overly

[stiles72]

The "tubey" sound Ampeg is referring to is the squishy, compressed tone you get from a tube amp. Think more along the lines of Motown/Blues/R&B. Very soft sounding. The "grinding" and well defined sound you get witht he knob cranked up is the "harshness" as they describe it. It emulates a solid state amp that is sharply reproducing all the frequency rather than blurring them together a bit more like a tube amp does. I'm sure the scientific guys can correct me or better explain it in technical terms.

[Billy3000]

Damn, everybody on here has a different explanation for what the tube gain knob is and does! I just played with it and left it where I thought it sounded good which was right around 12:00 or 1:00.

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by Billy3000

Damn, everybody on here has a different explanation for what the tube gain knob is and does!...

There is only one "explanation for what the tube gain knob is and does" . . . and that is printed in the SVT-3PRO's user manual . . . . . .

Originally Posted by Billy3000

... I just ... left it where I thought it sounded good which was right around 12:00 or 1:00.

like I said in my earlier post (#12), "the SVT-3PRO sounds more like a tube amp with the Tube Gain knob between 10 and 1 (as on a clock's face)" . . .

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by RandyRyan

Then what the hell is "Tubey" sounding?...

Originally Posted by stiles72

The "tubey" sound Ampeg is referring to is the squishy, compressed tone you get from a tube amp...

Yeah . . .

Originally Posted by RandyRyan

...If someone blindfolded me and diddled with the knob, I would guess that the Tube Gain all the way up sounds fuller and has extra harmonics...

but that's NOT "tubey sounding" . . . stiles72 got it right when he said the "well defined sound you get with the knob cranked up...is sharply reproducing all the frequenc(ies) rather than blurring them together (which is) a bit more like a tube amp does."

Originally Posted by RandyRyan

...NO Compression.

FWIW, the SVT-2 doesn't HAVE a compressor . . .

[Verminaard]

13. TUBE GAIN: The tube gain control varies the
high voltage supply to the power amp tubes. This
allows a variety of tonal response characteristics from
the power amp and replaces the limiter found on typical
solid state power amps. At “10” the voltage is at
maximum, providing a dynamic, highly responsive
tone. At “0” the voltage is at minimum, offering a thickened,
more compressed tone. This tone can also be
distorted, depending on volume level. In between settings
are best for preventing harsh distortion when
driving the power amp to its limits. The effect of this
control increases from moderate to dramatic as the
power amp is driven harder.


NOTE: When adjusting the tube gain control from
“10” to “0” rapidly, a low frequency hum as well as
muting of the output signal occur simultaneously. This
is due to shifting of the DC bias point of the tubes, and
is no cause for concern. Adjusting the control quickly
from “0” to “10” brings a moderate delay due to the
power supply capacitors charging.

Set at "10" for the cleanest sound.
Set at "5" for moderate softness.
Set at "0" for a very soft feel.

...From the manual.

[Rockmusician]

In the early 1980's I had a 1970 SVT that I loved. I eventually sold it because all the new technology that was coming out and I was tired of constantly replacing tubes. About ten years ago, I had a deal with Ampeg. I gave it up because I could never get the tone or power that I wanted. I tried several heads including the SVT 4 Pro and Classic all tube head. They both seemed under powered. I had the 4 Pro turned up almost all the way and still had trouble hearing myself. It was also noisy. I sent it back and got another one and had similar issues. I decided to try GK and have been relatively happy with the quality, tone and power. However, whenever I hear the sound that I really want it always seems to be coming through an Eden head and cabinet. I like Ampeg's cabs, especially the 410HLF but due to my experience with them, I am not a fan of their heads.