Ampeg SVT HLF 4x10 blew out again, I need advice

[rsf1977]

I don't know too much about bass gear, but I'm learning, here's the story. My bands bass player uses an Ampeg SVT HLF 4x10. And on our last tour he basically blew out the speakers playing too loud. Smelled the burning and down went each speaker. So he got it repaired and we were running it at our second practice and toast again... and we weren't even playing crazy loud at all, you know, to kind of ease the cab into it. So, I can't trust this cab model anymore. I was wondering if someone could recommend something tough as nails that can handle more power and the low tuning. And a reasonable price range if possible. Here's the rig run down as it is now.

Drop-A Bass Guitar -> SansAmp RPM preamp-> DBX 166XL Compressor -> Carvin DCML2000 DBX -> Cab? lol

[jgroh]

You cant trust any cab model if the bass player is at fault for blowing it out.

[rsf1977]

well, the first time it was being pushed really hard. The second time I'm baffled by, it wasn't very loud.

[B-string]

It really sounds like too much power and way too much lows for a single 410.
Unless the power amp is sick and sending DC to the cab? Someone tried bridged mode on a single cab?

[joelb79]

Oh my goodness.. Perhaps you need to rethink the idea of just a 410 and get a few 810's. Your thermally exceeding the limits of your cabinet and melting the voice coils. You probably are covering up the speaker distortion with your RBI. No way in heck the HLF410 can handle 2000w. That's about 1500 more watts than is safe IMO. Your amp also comes with a low cut switch (high pass filter at 40hz). If your not using it already, START!

2 810's driven with 1400w stereo off the same amplifier you have will be way more than 10db louder than a single 410 driven by 2000w bridged. And once you reach the max power needed to drive the 410HLF into Xmax, there is no amount of power you could add to that cabinet to make it louder. A single 810 would be more willing to take the 2000w, but you would still run the risk of thermally blowing the thing.

What kind of sound are you looking for? I'm tempted to just recommend a Fearful 1515/66.

[Gearhead17]

Listen to what the others said.

"Drop-A Bass Guitar" - also keep in mind that boosting heavy amounts of low end below 80hz to get a Low A tuned bass rumbling is a WASTE. A good presence around 150-300hz on a Low A string (at least in my experience) really makes that string come alive and have some real body to the tone. If the string has enough tension, the extreme low end content will already BE THERE.

The low-cut switch at 40hz is extremely helpful! Use it!

[Downunderwonder]

Lows come in many flavours. The ones you don't really hear fall below about 60hz, they are more tactile than audible.

Super low bass frequencies take a lot of power to make them. Far more than the power used to make higher frequencies.

In a double whammy, our hearing sensitivity to really low bass is less than higher frequencies. So the lows must be really loud to appear loud to our ears.

All that power sends regular bass drivers go shooting out of the cab. By and large we get away with the 2nd harmonic and up. To get significant quantity of fundamental tones you need subwoofers, lots of them.

Alternatively a $100 f-deck HPF is what you need. It drops out the super low frequencies leaving the harmonics. Our brain "fills in" the missing fundamentals so we hear the whole notes even though they aren't there.

[Downunderwonder]

Oops. The compressor isn't helping. It makes the overall volume louder without increasing the peak loudness, losing dynamic punch but heating up the drivers in the process. Hence the burning rather than the breaking of your cones.

[rsf1977]

b-string: is there any way to know if the poweramp is sending DC, is there any way I can detect that? Or do i need to bring it to a shop

joelb79: I know you're probably right about the power, but we never ran the power amp very high at all volume wise. I guess that doesnt matter? I was told the watts of a power amp don't matter if the levels are kept resonable?

Also I was doing some hunting. I came across the Micro Thumpinator this seems like a great way to eliminate uless subsonic low end that could really do damage at high volumes. Would that help on top of using less power?

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Oops. The compressor isn't helping. It makes the overall volume louder without increasing the peak loudness, losing dynamic punch but heating up the drivers in the process. Hence the burning rather than the breaking of your cones.

I was thinking this as well. 2000w compressed is a lot of power. Low A tuned... K i see the problems now. More cone area and the 100-150hz comments are really where it's at.

[rsf1977]

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

Listen to what the others said.

"Drop-A Bass Guitar" - also keep in mind that boosting heavy amounts of low end below 80hz to get a Low A tuned bass rumbling is a WASTE. A good presence around 150-300hz on a Low A string (at least in my experience) really makes that string come alive and have some real body to the tone. If the string has enough tension, the extreme low end content will already BE THERE.

The low-cut switch at 40hz is extremely helpful! Use it!

Thanks for the tips! As for the low cut, I don't believe there's any low cut switch on the RPM pre or the Carvin poweramp. I just reviewed both manuals and couldnt find one that's why i was wondering if the micro thumpinator could help

[rsf1977]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Lows come in many flavours. The ones you don't really hear fall below about 60hz, they are more tactile than audible.

Super low bass frequencies take a lot of power to make them. Far more than the power used to make higher frequencies.

In a double whammy, our hearing sensitivity to really low bass is less than higher frequencies. So the lows must be really loud to appear loud to our ears.

All that power sends regular bass drivers go shooting out of the cab. By and large we get away with the 2nd harmonic and up. To get significant quantity of fundamental tones you need subwoofers, lots of them.

Alternatively a $100 f-deck HPF is what you need. It drops out the super low frequencies leaving the harmonics. Our brain "fills in" the missing fundamentals so we hear the whole notes even though they aren't there.

Oh that's a neat gadget, is this considered a better option then the thumpinator? I see it can cut more lows if needed, interesting

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by rsf1977

Oh that's a neat gadget, is this considered a better option then the thumpinator? I see it can cut more lows if needed, interesting

Thumpinator is fixed and nowhere near as aggressive as it should be imo. It leaves 40 Hz alone where I would be doing away with 50Hz as well.

[rsf1977]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Thumpinator is fixed and nowhere near as aggressive as it should be imo. It leaves 40 Hz alone where I would be doing away with 50Hz as well.

Ok, the fdeck HPF series 3 has been ordered. I feel like there should be more of these gadgets available they see so helpful. Thanks.

And thanks to everyone who's offered suggestions, you guys rock!

[rsf1977]

Originally Posted by joelb79

I was thinking this as well. 2000w compressed is a lot of power. Low A tuned... K i see the problems now. More cone area and the 100-150hz comments are really where it's at.

i thought the compressor would help stop damage, by keeping the peaks from going crazy?

we really use it to just even out the playing a bit and to tame peaks a little. Do you have setting advice for do's or dont's.

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by rsf1977

I don't believe there's any low cut switch on the RPM pre or the Carvin poweramp.

It should be on the power amp, maybe called correctly a subsonic filter.

Edit: It was a feature of the DCM2000 and has been removed on the 2000L. Rats...

Originally Posted by rsf1977

i thought the compressor would help stop damage, by keeping the peaks from going crazy?

we really use it to just even out the playing a bit and to tame peaks a little. Do you have setting advice for do's or dont's.

Well that's the proper use of it really. In all honesty the problem is the power being way too hot for a 410. If it has to be 10's, you just need more speaker area to make use of that much power.

[B-string]

You can check for DC on the output pretty easy. With no cab connected use a cable with one end as a stripped pair of wires only. Wrap those wires individually around the separate test leads of a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) or VOM (Volt/Ohm Meter) set to DC volts. If not auto ranging start at the highest Volt reading and slowly turn the range to the smallest scale with the amp powered on. AT NO TIME LET THE LEADS TOUCH until the amp is powered off. The DC voltage should be less than 0.10 Volts DC.

THIS TEST IS FOR SS AMPS ONLY with no output transformer! Never try with a tube amp as this test does not apply to tube amps. Damage to a tube amp is likely as the DC on tube amps is isolated by the output transformer.

[rsf1977]

Originally Posted by B-string

You can check for DC on the output pretty easy. With no cab connected use a cable with one end as a stripped pair of wires only. Wrap those wires individually around the separate test leads of a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) or VOM (Volt/Ohm Meter) set to DC volts. If not auto ranging start at the highest Volt reading and slowly turn the range to the smallest scale with the amp powered on. AT NO TIME LET THE LEADS TOUCH until the amp is powered off. The DC voltage should be less than 0.10 Volts DC.

THIS TEST IS FOR SS AMPS ONLY with no output transformer! Never try with a tube amp as this test does not apply to tube amps. Damage to a tube amp is likely as the DC on tube amps is isolated by the output transformer.

Thanks!

[rsf1977]

Originally Posted by joelb79

Well that's the proper use of it really. In all honesty the problem is the power being way too hot for a 410. If it has to be 10's, you just need more speaker area to make use of that much power.

Ok. Is there a better option then 10s, and are there better tougher speakers then whatever is stock in the Ampeg SVT HLF

[B-string]

412 would be a good option. G-K, Mesa, Berg and Traynor have high power 412's.