Ampeg svt "tone" vs. Orange AD200 Mk3

sleevey · #1 12-21-2010, 05:51 PM

Hey all.........I play thru an Orange AD200, and I really dig it and have been tossing around buying an Ampeg 300 watt all tube head. I am wondering if there are years to look for (and stay away from) and also was wondering what the differences will be besides the obvious power output??? Any info on the Ampegs would be mucho appreciated!!

Timi · #2 12-21-2010, 06:44 PM

I find my Orange to have a bigger rounder low end and smoother top end, while SVTs tend to be tighter in the low end and more aggressive in the upper mids. Backline companies always have them, I would recommend hiring some different ones for a day and see how they work for you.

Keep in mind an SVT will weigh a lot more and can't run at 8 ohms...

Tim1 · #3 12-21-2010, 06:50 PM

The Orange will get dirtier way, way earlier than an SVT-VR, you can almost crank the VR beyond bearable and it will still stay clean - so much so that I use my VT pedal sometimes just to add a bit of grit. If you want loud and clean then the VR is for you, if not then go for the SVT-CL which can dial in preamp gain for some dirt. My VR into either my Bergantino NV610 or NV215 is Ampeg heaven, but certainly different to your Orange which IME does a great grind at much lower volume than the 'peg. Tonally what Timi says is about right. Horses for courses.....

Timi · #4 12-21-2010, 07:28 PM

Tim1, one day we will meet and the world will implode, with tone.

Tim1 · #5 12-21-2010, 08:27 PM

Hi Timi, you are right there. There seem to be few of us kiwis on Talkbass these days. Just had Steve Moodie (another Talkbasser) of the Thomas Oliver band round yesterday listening to the sounds. If only Rockshop or Jansen would import Bergantino.... still, can't complain as Bass Gear Direct in Oz provide a great service.

iiipopes · #6 12-21-2010, 08:47 PM

The SVT circuit is bassicly (pun intended) unchanged since its late '60's intro. It's made to be lit up by a P-bass and crack the concrete foundations of sports arenas with pure, unadulterated BASS.

I used one in a 7-piece band I was in over 15 years ago: lead singer, 3 guitars, bass, drums, keys, horns. Everybody miked up but me. Even then, I had to keep a lid on it so I didn't blow everybody off the stage.

The cons: you really need an area the size of a football field to really appreciate what an SVT with both cabs can really do. You need a platoon of roadies to move it. The original circuit didn't have that much tone shaping. I mean, after all, it was made for a P-bass and flats. If you tried to move the head yourself, you risked damaging irreparably your ability to have children. You had to have "12DW7" in your vocabulary. Every time you re-tubed, it was like buying a new head all over again.

The pros: the ability to lay a foundation deeper than the concrete under the Sears tower.

The Orange? The originals, from the same time period, with 4 X EL34's could give the nastiest tone pre-punk that God ever allowed man to solder together point-to-point. Even the marketing was "That Foggy Tone." An absolute wash of tone. Think London absolutely socked in so bad you could even taste it. Just dump it out and watch it spread its stickiness all over the place and running out the front and back door all over your shoes, like primal ooze. Hypnotic and psychedelic at the same time. Man, those were the days!

coreyfyfe · #7 12-21-2010, 08:51 PM

I kept seeing the updates on this thread and thought some dude was having a discussion with himself.

Anyways I agree with Timi and Tim1. The orange is a all around dirtier amp. I've always found the SVT-type tube tone to be more my flavor, grunty but not overly aggressive until pushed, very touch responsive (especially on the non-master models when you're playing at gigging volume). If you want to get that type of tone at a lower volume, the SVT-CL might be your best bet, you can set the gain for pre-amp drive or crank the master and use the gain as a volume control for power-amp drive. Although, between the types of SVTs, I've always felt that the non-master amps (ie vintage or VR) were voiced to have a better mid-response, not that it couldn't be coaxed out of a CL to a similar extent, but I just prefer the non-master SVT tone.

Timi · #8 12-21-2010, 08:51 PM

I've met Thomas, and I think I've met Steve. Small world!

Be nice to see Bergaintino here but I am more than happy with the custom cabs Livesound have made for me. There is a Livesound 8x10 for dirt cheap on trademe that has been there for ages, if only I could run at 2 ohms....

Billy3000 · #9 12-21-2010, 10:53 PM

Like everybody said they're both very different monsters! I love both, and it would definitely be awesome to have both in my aresenal! I have an SVT 2 pro that I will never part with. Next on my list is the terror bass, then one day when I strike it rich, an AD200.

Musicman20 · #10 12-22-2010, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiipopes

The Orange? The originals, from the same time period, with 4 X EL34's could give the nastiest tone pre-punk that God ever allowed man to solder together point-to-point. Even the marketing was "That Foggy Tone." An absolute wash of tone. Think London absolutely socked in so bad you could even taste it. Just dump it out and watch it spread its stickiness all over the place and running out the front and back door all over your shoes, like primal ooze. Hypnotic and psychedelic at the same time. Man, those were the days!

This is an awesome description.

JimmyM · #11 12-22-2010, 04:02 AM

svt remains remarkably consistent with its tone through the changes it's undergone over the decades. for heads there aren't any bad years. new ones or vintage, it's all good.

Musicman20 · #12 12-22-2010, 04:08 AM

They are both quite different. For me, the breakup on the Orange won me over, plus the slightly lighter weight, the 8 ohm capability, and the fact they are cheaper over here in the UK! First time us Brits win with lower prices!

The other major factor was the Made in England tag, and warranty. I can get a hold of Orange UK very quickly and get anything sorted.

Depends on what tone you like really. The Orange is a gain monster, but its not JUST about the tube breakup, it also sounds fat/warm clean and sweet when at lower gain levels.

BassmanAd · #13 12-22-2010, 04:24 AM

Just to throw an extra option out there...

I have access to both an SVT / 810 stack and an AD200 stack with the accompanying 410 and 115 cab. I'm an SVT guy through and through and never thought anything would make me happier. Then the SVT had to go to the shop so I threw the AD200 on the 'Peg 810 to keep me going.

Sweet.

Merciful.

Crap.

Did that head ever sound sound sweet through that cab. Those Orange cabs are really well made and everything but (and this is forgetting the whole 410 + 115 argument for a second) they just don't do justice to the AD200 like and Ampeg 810 does, at least to my ears. It's a much smoother tone than the SVT and less growly / aggressive but it's the aural equivalent of slipping into a warm bath. I'll still choose the SVT over the AD200 but running through the Ampeg 810, it's a very, very close second.

Rockmusician · #14 12-22-2010, 04:40 AM

In the early 80s I had a 1970 and a 1974 SVT. About 8 years ago I had a new SVT Classic. There was no comparison. The early models were much better. If you really want an SVT look for something from the 1960s or 70s. They will be expensive though. One thing to keep in mind is that an SVT head weighs close to 100 pounds. That's a lot of weight especially if you have to move your gear yourself.

crack-boom · #15 12-22-2010, 05:20 AM

Woah we get those amps down here??? Hahahaha

Tim1 · #16 12-22-2010, 12:00 PM

Hi crack-boom. Rockshops are agents for both Ampeg and Orange in new Zealand and usually have some in stock, I have played an Orange AD200 in Christchurch Rockshop and I bought my SVT-VR through Napier Rockshop. That said, they are not cheap and when you compare with overseas the markup is sometimes hard to swallow.....
I have imported gear at times but this is always a ganble unless you deal through someone reputable like Bass Gear Direct in Sydney. Cheers, Tim

crack-boom · #17 12-22-2010, 10:32 PM

Haha yeah I was jus being a noob. Seen the Ampeg VR stack in the Wellington Rockshop and the Orange stack in the K rd Rockshop. Just wish I wasnt a student so could afford some of these things haha

BassBob1 · #18 12-22-2010, 10:57 PM

first of all, i really like ampeg. I have not had the opportunity to play any vintage svt's but have heard them and know a few people who had them way back when. I have a/b tested the current av and cl svt's and i think the av heads sound better. I don't know if there are any years to avoid though. I know people say the pre-overseas production svt's are better but i never played one.

JimmyM · #19 12-22-2010, 11:03 PM

bassbob, i've played them all except the heritage cl, and really, there aren't any years to avoid for heads. i do prefer the vintage and vr heads (i think you meant to say vr too...the av is a cl with old school cosmetics), but i think the cl is almost as great. certainly my number #3 favorite head of all time behind the vintage/vr and the b-15.

timbledum · #20 12-22-2010, 11:15 PM

So uh... I got nothing to add here, I just wanted to get my username and country out there :P