Ampeg SVT410HLF driver history

derridiandrift · #1 05-08-2011, 10:26 AM

I did a quick search and I couldn't come up with the exact answers to these questions, so here's what I need sorted out. I'm sure that the collective knowledge exists here on TB.

1) The first generation of the SVT410HLF, which I'll call the SLM era, had drivers made by Eminence in the USA. I always assumed these were cast drivers, and that they were different from the stamped drivers used in the 810E and 410HE. Do I have my facts straight?

2) The second generation of these cabs, which I'll call the Vietnam production, have drivers sourced from somewhere in Asia, likely China or Vietnam. The Ampeg website doesn't specify whether these are stamped or cast drivers. I found information on the Musician's Friend web site that clearly indicates Ampeg is using the same drivers in the 810E, 410HE, and 410HLF. Is Musician's Friend misinformed, or are the Vietnam production 410HLF cabs now using stamped drivers?

3) The third generation of these cabs is the Heritage line. Ampeg indicates that the drivers are sourced from Eminence but doesn't indicate whether they're stamped or cast, so does anyone know if the Heritage line drivers are stamped or cast? My suspicion is that they might have discovered a sonic and economic benefit to using the same drivers from the 810 during the course of moving production to Vietnam, and have decided to carry that concept over to the new Heritage production. I'm not sure how else to account for a pretty substantial loss in overall cab weight. Change in cabinetry wood alone doesn't account for that much. Change in driver weight would.

If this has already been sorted out, can someone please point me to that thread?

AlexanderB · #2 05-08-2011, 03:21 PM

First: do not trust MF in this case.
It is obviously not the same driver as in the sealed cabinets, as those drivers are 8 Ohms per quartet - not possible to accompish with 4 x 4 Ohm drivers.

In my Ampeg catalogues there is nothing mentioned about any cast frame drivers in SVT-410HLF.

BTW, perhaps not exactly what you are looking for, but I recently bought a used SVT-210HE. According to the printed Ampeg catalogues I have and to their home page, this cabinet is loaded with cast frame drivers.
Therefore, I was quite surprised to see two stamped frame SVT-410HLF drivers in the 210 cab when I opened it up... And I bought it from the original owner.

derridiandrift · #3 05-08-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

It is obviously not the same driver as in the sealed cabinets, as those drivers are 8 Ohms per quartet - not possible to accompish with 4 x 4 Ohm drivers.

Of course. I don't know why I didn't see that right off. That completely discounts the possibility of the drivers in the Heritage 810 being the same as the drivers in the Heritage 410HLF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

In my Ampeg catalogues there is nothing mentioned about any cast frame drivers in SVT-410HLF.

It looks like I was completely misinformed about the whole cast driver thing. It's possible I'm confusing the SVT410HLF with the discontinued Pro series of cabs that MAY have had cast drivers.

Thanks for setting me straight on that.

Jerrold Tiers · #4 05-08-2011, 09:09 PM

AFAIK the SLM HLF drivers were all stamped also.

The obvious difference between the HLF and the standard is the backplate, which is flat on a standard unit, and dished out for more cone/coil travel on the HLF. Magnet is bigger too.

There were various cast frame used in special 810 cabs, and probably in 410 also, but I am not a super reference for the speaker details like that, some models I barely saw. Others I had quite a bit to do with.... whatever.

JimmyM · #5 05-08-2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrold Tiers

AFAIK the SLM HLF drivers were all stamped also.

The obvious difference between the HLF and the standard is the backplate, which is flat on a standard unit, and dished out for more cone/coil travel on the HLF. Magnet is bigger too.

whoa! trade secret being given up! nice! that's actually a pretty creative idea considering it predates neo woofers.

Real Ska · #6 06-21-2011, 05:52 PM

What's causing the difference in weight between the 4X10 HLF & The Heritage 4X10 HLF though? Would the Heritage series be considered higher quality? do they sound different? I will be pairing it with a Heritage SVT-CL that I'm saving for. Obviously, I originally thought the Heritage 4X10 HLF would be a perfect match, but now I'm confused...
I'll be running my 62 RI P-Bass through it. Selling my entire SWR Mo Bass rig for this, so i wanna make sure i choose correctly. Is the Heritage 4X10 HLF identical to the vietnam version with just better quality parts, or are there distinct acoustical
differences/advantages? Any help please?

derridiandrift · #7 06-21-2011, 07:34 PM

Heritage SVT410HLF is listed as 76 pounds.
The current production SVT410HLF (made in Vietnam) is listed as 85 pounds.

Honestly, my guess is that they're both the same weight and there's a mistake in the ad copy for the "classic" SVT410HLF. I checked one out last weekend. It didn't feel like 85 pounds when I lifted it (it felt lighter), but I don't know its weight for a fact.

Not having played through the Heritage 410HLF, my gut tells me that you'll be well served by matching the Heritage cab to the Heritage SVT-CL.

rodl2005 · #8 06-21-2011, 08:06 PM

I'm wondering re the weight of these too. AFAIK, my SVT410HLF I had a few yrs ago-a SLM model-was listed as 110lbs! & it felt like it too! It was a TANK to move/lift!!!
Now there are various weights listed for this cab. It makes no difference to me now, but I'd like to know. & why.

AlexanderB · #9 06-22-2011, 04:52 AM

The asian enclosures are made of plywood and the 85 pound figure seems ok.
Older, American enclosures were made of OSB with a plywood baffle. A heavier and more fragile way of building. 110 ponds might be accurate for those cabinets.

Jerrold Tiers · #10 06-22-2011, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

Older, American enclosures were made of OSB with a plywood baffle. A heavier and more fragile way of building. 110 ponds might be accurate for those cabinets.

Actually, the OSB was for a time toward the end of SLM...... prior to that they were all plywood. Both marine ply and russian birch / baltic birch were used, with different models often having different materials at a given time.

So an SLM cab may be US marine ply, Russian/baltic birch, OR OSB, depending on the model, and the time when it was made.

Wes Whitmore · #11 06-22-2011, 07:10 AM

2004 SLM HLN cab was 3/4" OSB with a plywood baffle, and partical board bracing, while my newer Vietnamese was entirely made of .5" baltic birch, and was lighter.

2004 HLN 10" driver

Vietnamese Chinese made Eminence 10" driver:

derridiandrift · #12 06-22-2011, 04:42 PM

It's interesting that there's no padding inside the Vietnamese built cab. Or maybe both the the old SLM model and the Vietnam model have the damping insulation stuff in the top half only.

Real Ska · #13 06-22-2011, 06:50 PM

Thanks for the replies!
it has been helpful! probably gonna go with the heritage series 4X10 HLF. will post pics or intel upon arrival.

hyp.spec · #14 06-22-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derridiandrift

It's interesting that there's no padding inside the Vietnamese built cab. Or maybe both the the old SLM model and the Vietnam model have the damping insulation stuff in the top half only.

+1

Jerrold Tiers · #15 06-22-2011, 08:20 PM

SLM should have it in each compartment.

gbarchus · #16 06-23-2011, 08:00 AM

My older SVT 410AV (HEN) cabinet has 32 ohm speakers and made of Baltic birch. I imagine they are the same as the 810AV. It's listed at 91 lbs and I believe it.

Gale

Wes Whitmore · #17 06-23-2011, 10:33 AM

The SLM HLN didn't have fiberglass on every exterior surface either. The vietnamese has some in there. The sides and braces seem to be scarce on both models. If the fiberglass is green in these pictures, its the SLM.

STV410HLF or HLN cabs always had 4 4ohm speakers wired series/parallel as far as I know...

Wes

derridiandrift · #18 06-23-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbarchus

My older SVT 410AV (HEN) cabinet has 32 ohm speakers and made of Baltic birch. I imagine they are the same as the 810AV. It's listed at 91 lbs and I believe it.

Gale

Yes, those sealed 410 cabs all had the same 32 ohm drivers as the 810. I had an SLM era SVT-410HE and it at had a plywood baffle and some kind of MDF for the rest of the box. It was unreasonably heavy for a simple sealed 410.

My Made in Vietnam SVT-810E is actually a reasonable weight for an 810. I can handle it by myself with way less stress than moving a 410. I typically move it with either my Toyota Tacoma or my wife's Subaru Outback.

derridiandrift · #19 06-23-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Whitmore

The SLM HLN didn't have fiberglass on every exterior surface either. The vietnamese has some in there. The sides and braces seem to be scarce on both models. If the fiberglass is green in these pictures, its the SLM.

Wes, it seems on first glance that the wiring is a bit neater in the Vietnam version of the cab. It seems a bit more time has been taken to twist pairs together instead of having them loose.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it looks that way in the photos you provided.

Wes Whitmore · #20 06-23-2011, 08:11 PM

The construction quaility of the Vietnamese cab is better if you ask me. Over the past years cab makes have started caring about what materials the build there cabs out of since people started associating good cabs with quality plywood (usually baltic birch). They can use it as a sales pitch as well. The crossovers are both SLM versions, I think LOUD purchased left over parts and shipped them over seas. To me, the Vietnamese cabs are better built.
I questions the eminence chinese drivers, and non p-audio brand horn, but to me, they sounded the same. It was still more cab than I needed.
Wes