Ampeg V4BH - struggle for volume

Low Sound Love · #1 12-13-2011, 02:05 AM

warning: rather long post, lots of whining

Yesterday I had the first chance to test drive the Ampeg V4BH tube amp I recently acquired. And to get straight to the point, it failed miserably volume-wise

My setup is Gibson T-bird -> V4BH -> SVT410hlf. With the gain set at 7 and the master set at 10(!), I could not keep up with the drums. With gain and master at 10, I was able to cut through but then it was straight-out distortion (the best bass distortion I have ever heard, but not something I want all the time).
With gain at 6 and master at 6, I was getting a nice fingerstyle tone ... at a level for practicing by myself! A 100 Watt Ampeg tube amp should deliver more than that, no? Was I a fool for thinking 100 Ampeg Watts would be enough for a 3-piece rock band?
Something else I noticed was that all A notes were boosted significantly, and at low volume I could hear a slight ringing sound.
We did play a large hall with bad, bad acoustics, but we have been doing so for years now, and I've had the 3-pro master over halfway and even played a 80Watt combo when the 3-pro was being serviced. To my feeling, that 80 Watt Fender ss combo was louder than this 100 Watt Ampeg tube amp.

The guy I bought it from said he replaced the power tubes five months ago, and did the bias himself. He chose to bias it rather conservatively (opposite of 'hot' biasing) 'to maximize the tube life span'. He did not replace the preamp or driver tubes.

I'll drop off the amp with a respected amp tech/builder this afternoon for a full check-up. If no shortcomings are found, would a different cabinet make a difference? I have been eyeing Aguilar DB 412's and Mesa's 610, but I'm not convinced that would be sufficient.

Does anyone have experience with this amp? Is it really just not loud enough to compete with a loud drummer and a 2x12" guitar combo?

JimmyM · #2 12-13-2011, 02:24 AM

100w are still 100w whether tube or solid state. Plus the 410hlf is a little quieter than your average 410 because it goes so low. You will get a lot more volume with an 810e, but it still may not be enough as it's still 100w before it hits distortion.

Ender_rpm · #3 12-13-2011, 02:24 AM

The 410HLF is a power hungry cab. Try backing off on the bass knob, dime the master, add gain to taste, but yeah, a new cab, either taller or at least better aimed at your noggin, may match better.

arthur31686 · #4 12-13-2011, 02:35 AM

I've never played the V4BH, but I have plenty of band and show experience with my V4B at this point. An 810 would probably work....but experimenting costs time and money.

Regardless, I don't think you're going to be able to have a clean sound no matter what cab you get based on the band you're playing in. Its a 100w tube head.

edit: And I don't know if the v4bh has two outputs. Maybe try running two 8ohm cabs (at 4ohms) if you can?

rodl2005 · #5 12-13-2011, 04:29 AM

I had a V4BH & into a 410hlf I can understand your prob.
A more efficient cab, I had best results with both a Berg NV610 & Ampeg 810 cabs-both loud, punchy, not voiced deep like the 410hlf. I had no problem keeping up with a loud, loud drummer!
IF there's nothing wrong with yr amp, I,too, would advise running more suited cab/s.

Turock · #6 12-13-2011, 05:17 AM

I have two of those heads. They seem to me to be as loud as as my 350 watt and 450 watt SS heads. Surely a V4BH should be louder than an 80 watt combo. I'd get it checked out.

craig.p · #7 12-13-2011, 05:25 AM

Yes, it's all about cab efficiency with those amps. Remember the V4B was originally meant to run a 2x15 FH cab; that cab was what let those 100 watts squeak by. Into something inefficient I think you're automatically SOL, unless it's for studio work (small iso room, low volume) or stage coverage only (bass through the mains).

Ric Vice · #8 12-13-2011, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Sound Love

Yesterday I had the first chance to test drive the Ampeg V4BH tube amp I recently acquired. And to get straight to the point, it failed miserably volume-wise

Does anyone have experience with this amp? Is it really just not loud enough to compete with a loud drummer and a 2x12" guitar combo?

I did a couple concerts with a V4B and it's matching cabinet when I was a kid. I could never warm up to that particular amp, even with the 2X15 folded horn cabinet. It's sound is very dark and on the stage it's hard to hear any note definition.
I'd say that maybe it's just not the head of choice for what you do musically. I always wondered why Ampeg didn't make the V4B into a 200 watt amp, to position it closer to the SVT. Actually, from my perspective they should have made the B25 a 100 watt amp as well, but hindsight is always 20/20. I always kind of felt that the V4B was a modified guitar amp (actually it was) rushed out to the market, with a redesigned folded horn cabinet, that they rolled out way to fast, in an attempt to compete directly with the Acoustic 360/361 amps, and it failed rather miserably. That said, if you put it on top of a regular 2 x15 or 2x10 cabinet they sound pretty good. Just not SVT good IMHO, IME. Just my opinion though, a lot of players really love this head. SVT's were and are still a very expensive proposition and the weigh a ton.

Ric

christw · #9 12-13-2011, 06:42 AM

I'm with you guys. I have a V4BH and it compresses earlier than I want it to, even through efficient cabs. That trick of rolling the bass back in was something I'd already tried and left unimpressed. I'll probably drag it out if I play in a punk band with some OD but otherwise, ditching that SVT was a mistake... AGAIN. D'oh!

Rob L · #10 12-13-2011, 06:47 AM

Here's my 2 cents:

I will say I love my V4BH, the tone is killer. I use it with an 8x10 cab. But I also cannot play/use it with the band I am in right now which is a 3 piece rock band. Volume is the issue also. Loud guitar player and drummer and the V4BH just can't keep up.

As Jimmy stated it is 100 watts, which the amp does sound great. It is just not useable in my band situation though. I do use a SVT in this situation. Tones are great but the weight is heavy! Just have to forget about the weight and you will have plenty of volume.

perogato02 · #11 12-13-2011, 06:48 AM

So using more speakers doesn't cure the lack of volume?

christw · #12 12-13-2011, 06:52 AM

More speakers helps but I run mine into a vintage 810 and I'm complaining. It'll get loud but not loud enough to offend the senses.

Turock · #13 12-13-2011, 07:02 AM

Sheesh, if an Ampeg V4BH through an 8X10 is not loud enough, you guys need to reconsider your volume.

christw · #14 12-13-2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turock

Sheesh, if an Ampeg V4BH through an 8X10 is not loud enough, you guys need to reconsider your volume.

Works great at home with my roomies but at least half of the bands I've been in have demanded a 410 and 300w or more of me in immediate practice volume alone. I like earplugs.

CL400Peavey · #15 12-13-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perogato02

So using more speakers doesn't cure the lack of volume?

It will net you more volume, but you will still be running out of clean headroom at the volume you are talking about.

chillerthanmost · #16 12-13-2011, 08:39 AM

Could be biased too cold which could make it suffer in the volume department. Try a 2x15 or 4x12, might get less break. Also, don't rule out a bad preamp tube.

Jazz_bass2664 · #17 12-13-2011, 08:53 AM

I got an old 1970 V4 and love it. That things louder than hell. I have 6550 power tubes in it though which does bump up the output some. Sounds like your amp may be biased too cold. I never get past 1/2 volume on mine. Course it doesn't have a master volume knob. I run it into either a 1x15 or an 8x10

beans-on-toast · #18 12-13-2011, 09:04 AM

I think that there are a couple of things that you can do.

First have the tubes checked out and have the power tubes biased to optimize performance. Have the tech measure how much power the amp is putting out to verify that it is working to spec.

Make sure that the impedance selector on the back of the amp is set for 4 ohms to properly match your cabinet.

Then reassess if the volume level is still an issue.

christw · #19 12-13-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz_bass2664

I got an old 1970 V4 and love it. That things louder than hell. I have 6550 power tubes in it though which does bump up the output some. Sounds like your amp may be biased too cold. I never get past 1/2 volume on mine. Course it doesn't have a master volume knob. I run it into either a 1x15 or an 8x10

Then you probably have one of those above mentioned hypothetical 200w V4

dmusic148 · #20 12-13-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

More speakers helps but I run mine into a vintage 810 and I'm complaining. It'll get loud but not loud enough to offend the senses.

Never tried the 'Peg.' But I did try a 50 watt Marshall into my stacked Goliath cabs(8 10's). I remember it being pretty loud, but I had to get it into very 'dirty' territory before it would (not quite) keep up with our rather loud band.