Ampegs and Oranges

[CJ_Horror]

I've more or less got my future rig choices down to two: Ampeg SVT-VR (or a pre-1995 SVT model) or an Orange AD200. I dig them both, but there are some points I would like to be clarified.

First, my band plays LOUD. I work with a hard hitting drummer and we're looking for a second guitarist, meaning the sound is only going to get bigger. Will the Orange volume cut through? Or is the extra oomph of the SVT significantly better for that. The early breakup on the Orange doesn't really bother me, I used a Terror Bass for a gig and thought it was rad. It got LOUD. I'm seriously considering buying one as well, but the all tube call is so very strong .

Second, I've heard horror stories about the wiring in the new Ampeg models. Apparently the new the new Chinese/Vietnamese manufactured products are a far cry from the older products produced in the US, any opinions on this would be appreciated.

The final issue is this, I'm a fan of the 8x10 cab. Getting an Ampeg 8x10 in Australia = no worries, however getting the Orange 8x10 in Australia is a real ordeal. Is this enough to sway me toward an Ampeg? Or is the Orange gear worth international shipping? I'm in Sydney and the best way to try gear out is to travel to Melbourne (shop staff don't like letting people try out gear unless they have the money there and then). Alternatively, are there any other 8x10's would pair well with the Orange?

There's a lot there, but I want to ensure I get the best possible rig. I like the sound of both, but as someone who plays aggressively and wants to cut through I need a rig that can really make it happen. Any opinions would be helpful.

[Tim1]

Have a look at this recent thread, it should answer many of your questions:
Ampeg svt "tone" vs. Orange AD200 Mk3

[Tim1]

I should have added (too lazy to edit) that since you are in Australia I would be going for a Bergantino NV610 ahead of the Ampeg 810 cabinet, it is easily available from Bass Gear Direct in Sydney. It might be just a 610 but it will more than match the Ampeg (and I have owned both).

[CJ_Horror]

Cheers Tim1, that helps.

I like that the Orange has a dirtier sound, I've been opting for it for a while, my main niggling doubt was that the Ampeg would give me the volume I crave.

And I agree on the Bergantino cabs, I heard the new 412 and it sounded awesome.

[fu22ba55]

The fact that the Ampeg can drive a 2 Ohm load is a really big deal if you need to be really loud. If you're used to an SVT pushing two fridges, then an AD200B MKIII will sound like you're a mime.

Also, on the AD200B, Orange solders their tube sockets directly into the PCB. This is a bad, bad, stupid thing for them to do. Tubes get hot. Stuff melts. Shame on you Orange. I'd wait for a MKIV and hope they fix that design flaw.

Loud == SVT.

(I think the AD200B sounds great... If you didn't need murderous volumes, you'd be OK. But the SVT pushing 2 Ohms is louder than bombs.)

[smo]

+1 on George as bassgeardirect.
I got my Bergie NV412 from him and it's the best cab I've ever used, better bottom than an ampeg 810 IMO.

I run a 200w WASP tube head myself, and we play LOUD.
200w is gonna be loud enough for sure - just a question of if you want clean..... 200w IS gonna get that awesome power tube overdrive a fair bit earlier than the Ampeg 300w.

EDIT - bear in mind - most venues I play in don't let me turn the 200w tuber up loud enough to get that overdriven power tubes sweet spot, so don't let be the only thing that makes up your mind....

[Billy3000]

From what I have heard the SVT VR doesn't overdrive as easily as the regular model SVT does. I've never played one but I have heard that from more than one person. If you like that about the orange it seems like the SVT VR isn't going to get that same amount of drive. Also, 200 watts should be plenty! I can't imagine you having any trouble being heard with that amp.

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by Billy3000

Also, 200 watts should be plenty! I can't imagine you having any trouble being heard with that amp.

Then you have a very poor imagination.

Once a drummer is used to the sound of an SVT pushing 2 Ohms worth of cabs, a 200W amp pushing a single 4 Ohm cab (if that's all it can push) sounds like a cell phone ring tone.

Sure, for some bands, 200 watts is plenty. But for some bands, 300W is not enough. Different strokes...

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by Billy3000

From what I have heard the SVT VR doesn't overdrive as easily as the regular model SVT does. I've never played one but I have heard that from more than one person. If you like that about the orange it seems like the SVT VR isn't going to get that same amount of drive. Also, 200 watts should be plenty! I can't imagine you having any trouble being heard with that amp.

The drive is different. The orange is limited by the transformer to about 170 watts and has an inherently dirtier tone so it will get raunchy quickly and tends to sound fuzzier IMO. Between the SVTs, one with a master volume will allow you to dial in a specific amount of drive - either pre or power amp depending on how you dial your knobs (controlling volume with master or with gain) - whereas the non-master models you really have to be loud before it starts to get hairy. However, with the SVT-VR/vintage amps, I feel the tone is overall more aggressive, and once you hit the sweet spot on the amp you're in the range where it's very touch responsive - the harder you play, the dirtier it will sound.

[alembicguy]

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

Then you have a very poor imagination.

Once a drummer is used to the sound of an SVT pushing 2 Ohms worth of cabs, a 200W amp pushing a single 4 Ohm cab (if that's all it can push) sounds like a cell phone ring tone.

Sure, for some bands, 200 watts is plenty. But for some bands, 300W is not enough. Different strokes...

+1 to this

[dopejohnpaul]

+1 to everything above
The SVT is hands down what you're looking for if you need the most volume possible between the two. If there was a situation that couldn't work with an SVT running at 2 ohms, I haven't found it.

One thing that hasn't been touched on are the tube differences in the two amps. Your choice will also depend on your preference of KT88s (which is what I believe comes stock in the Orange) vs an SVT's 6550s.

[BassmanAd]

I mention on the thread Tim1 linked to earlier, if you get a chance to try the Orange AD200 through an Ampeg 8x10 it's well worth considering. I did it and really didn't notice much difference from the SVT in terms of volume.

[rmkesler]

Originally Posted by Billy3000

From what I have heard the SVT VR doesn't overdrive as easily as the regular model SVT does. I've never played one but I have heard that from more than one person. If you like that about the orange it seems like the SVT VR isn't going to get that same amount of drive. Also, 200 watts should be plenty! I can't imagine you having any trouble being heard with that amp.

Like the old SVTs, the VR lacks a gain control so you can't be afraid to grab a fist full of volume to get it to come alive. If they play as loud as he says it should be fine.

[TheNightLife]

i would do the svt. i have the cl with an 810 and i love it. ive played through both heads and came to the conclusion the svt can push a little harder and cleaner.

side note i would never go back to that music store that wont let you play the gear without cash in hand. people like that dont deserve your business. if i did that where i work id get fired in a heartbeat.

[Billy3000]

Originally Posted by fu22ba55

Then you have a very poor imagination.

Once a drummer is used to the sound of an SVT pushing 2 Ohms worth of cabs, a 200W amp pushing a single 4 Ohm cab (if that's all it can push) sounds like a cell phone ring tone.

Sure, for some bands, 200 watts is plenty. But for some bands, 300W is not enough. Different strokes...

Haha, I mean my band plays LOUD too! I'm only fighting against an Orange AD30 and 50 watt Marshall JMP though, so those amps are kind of like a smart car trying to intimidate the semi truck that is my SVT! haha! I have an SVT 2 pro, 300 watts all tube and I get yelled at by my band if it's above 10:00 at most! I played an Orange AD 200 at a store when I was testing my Ric out and had it on about 10:00 and it was shaking the whole damn store! I've played with some incredibly heavy hitting drummers too, and none have ever had trouble hearing me on my ampeg at about 9:00 to 10:00. If your drummer can't hear you unless you're playing a 300 watt svt at 2 ohm across two 8x10s I don't think the problem is that your amp isn't loud enough, I think your drummer is deaf!

[fu22ba55]

Originally Posted by Billy3000

If your drummer can't hear you unless you're playing a 300 watt svt at 2 ohm across two 8x10s I don't think the problem is that your amp isn't loud enough, I think your drummer is deaf!

100% True. His last band rode him pretty hard. Lots of amps.

The problem is, now he's gotten ME used to the mighty 2 Ohm load, so we're both lost causes now. Now if I play a single 8X10 it sounds like a tinkertoy. (An awesome tinkertoy, but still a tinkertoy.) Once you move on to the hard stuff, the weak sauce just doesn't cut it anymore.

[nysbob]

I think what you REALLY want is Marshall VBA400 and either 2 412 or 810 boxes.

An all-tube rig that will literally crush anything in its path....

[kosmicwizard]

I still enjoy weak sauce from time to time. It mostly is just to appease the neighbours though. Cheers.

[brobot]

Do you want a dirtier sound? If so, the Orange is the way to go. If you liked the Terror Bass, it's just a better of that IMO. If you need a wider range of sounds, the SVT because it's cleaner overall.

Either one will give you enough volume to stay well mixed with the hardest hit acoustic drums, barring them going through the PA and you not.

By the way, the Berg NV610 is probably the best cab I've ever played through. To me, it's night and day comparing it to an Ampeg 810. So damn punchy.

[NKUSigEp]

That Ampeg is sweet. But the orange...