Angled bass cab?

merbass · #1 09-17-2010, 01:09 PM

I was thinkin, guitar cabs (marshall 4x12, etc) have the top 2 drivers angled up, apparently to help the guitarist hear. Would there be any sonic issues or problems with designing a bass cab the same way? I.E., a 4x12 bass cab with the top 2 speakers angled up? Or perphaps a 2x15 with the top 15 angled up? I like having a big rig behind me, not necessarily for the volume, but because I like having the speakers closer to ear level.

billfitzmaurice · #2 09-17-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merbass

I was thinkin, guitar cabs (marshall 4x12, etc) have the top 2 drivers angled up, apparently to help the guitarist hear. Would there be any sonic issues or problems with designing a bass cab the same way?

Doing so reduces the cabinet volume, and that reduces bass response. It also sends mids over the head of the audience, as they're not standing ten feet or less from the cab. Stacking a pair of 2x cabs with vertically aligned drivers does a much better job, as it gets the top cab near ear level and doubles midrange horizontal dispersion compared to a 4x.

oddgrowth · #3 09-17-2010, 04:01 PM

I have a Marshall 1935A (slanted top) 4x12 JCM 800 Bass Series cab.

I got it last weekend & it surprisingly held it's own at practice twice this week, vs (2) 1/2 stacks. - it's powered by a JCM 800 Bass Series 100w.

Main Rig: Mesa M2000 (600w) into 2-1x15 RR's (kappalite loaded).

Unexpectedly, it has quite the range & has me seriously thinking about making this a gig rig.

Mo'Phat · #4 09-17-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Doing so reduces the cabinet volume, and that reduces bass response. It also sends mids over the head of the audience, as they're not standing ten feet or less from the cab. Stacking a pair of 2x cabs with vertically aligned drivers does a much better job, as it gets the top cab near ear level and doubles midrange horizontal dispersion compared to a 4x.

But, if the overall cabinet volume with the top two angled upward was still ideal for the drivers, then the design would be sound, correct? Also, if your bass signal is going to FOH, then what the audience hears out of your cabinet is secondary to you being able to hear yourself. Last, if you could get a single-cabinet solution by angling the upper driver(s) at your head, wouldn't that be preferable to two cabinets stacked vertically?

/chances are, however, there are currently no commercial cabinets designed like this that are actually designed well.

David1234 · #5 09-17-2010, 04:18 PM

Fender have had a bass quad out for some years with a slanted top two speakers. The hartke 2200 cab had a similar shape, a vertical 212 with the top driver slanted slightly. Dr. Bass have sold a number of slant front cabs too.I use one, a 1260SF. Having the slight slant does seem to help on small stages.

dmusic148 · #6 09-17-2010, 04:21 PM

Hartke used to make this:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/p...1637&brandID=3

I've seen a guy use one several times- sounded good to me.

billfitzmaurice · #7 09-17-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo'Phat

But, if the overall cabinet volume with the top two angled upward was still ideal for the drivers, then the design would be sound, correct? Also, if your bass signal is going to FOH, then what the audience hears out of your cabinet is secondary to you being able to hear yourself.

Logical arguments. But just tilting the cab back is easier and accomplishes the same task.

Quote:

Last, if you could get a single-cabinet solution by angling the upper driver(s) at your head, wouldn't that be preferable to two cabinets stacked vertically

There's still the matter of doubling horizontal dispersion, which benefits all those on stage, including you, even if the audience is out of the loop.

rdpbass · #8 09-17-2010, 06:12 PM

Is what your lookin for ?

http://thunderfunk.com/Speakers.html

merbass · #9 09-17-2010, 06:19 PM

That Thunderfunk looks really interesting!

Stick_Player · #10 09-17-2010, 06:23 PM

Here are some current options:

Phil Jones:

VOX:

heath_r_91 · #11 09-17-2010, 06:23 PM

Ampeg used to make one. It was in the series with the metal grills.

I think it was the B410hs or something like that.

Munjibunga · #12 09-17-2010, 06:39 PM

Eden used to make a model of the D-210XLT that tilted back. You could get one of those and put it on top of a regular D-210XLT or, better, XST and have a fairly killer rig.

MIJ-VI · #13 09-17-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo'Phat

But, if the overall cabinet volume with the top two angled upward was still ideal for the drivers, then the design would be sound, correct? Also, if your bass signal is going to FOH, then what the audience hears out of your cabinet is secondary to you being able to hear yourself. Last, if you could get a single-cabinet solution by angling the upper driver(s) at your head, wouldn't that be preferable to two cabinets stacked vertically?

/chances are, however, there are currently no commercial cabinets designed like this that are actually designed well.

http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?c=6

billfitzmaurice · #14 09-17-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?c=6

They look good, but looks aren't everything. For cabs to work well with all those drivers horizontally placed requires a very complicated crossover arrangement, so that only one vertical line of drivers runs full range, while the other lines are low-passed at progressively lower frequencies. I don't know if PJB does so.

Ben Clarke · #15 09-17-2010, 10:18 PM

I played with a small 1x12 and a 2x8 wedge combo kicked back on top for a summer and really liked the coverage. I wanted to get tubier and went another direction, but the concept works if you keep it simple. Nice that you can hear well right next to it and 30 feet away.

MIJ-VI · #16 09-17-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

They look good, but looks aren't everything. For cabs to work well with all those drivers horizontally placed requires a very complicated crossover arrangement, so that only one vertical line of drivers runs full range, while the other lines are low-passed at progressively lower frequencies. I don't know if PJB does so.

IIRC they're all run full-range.

MIJ-VI · #17 09-17-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Clarke

I played with a small 1x12 and a 2x8 wedge combo kicked back on top for a summer and really liked the coverage. I wanted to get tubier and went another direction, but the concept works if you keep it simple. Nice that you can hear well right next to it and 30 feet away.

Lemme guess...

http://www.traynoramps.com/products....&cat=64&id=414

It's too bad T' doesn't offer a proper matching 2x8" extension cab (mixed full-range rigs

) for the 2x8" DB 300T combo instead of the TC 112 ext. cab (which does match for the 1x12" DB 300 combo).

Even an ext. cabinet formed by a DB 300T cab & speakers minus the head, with feet added on one end of both cabs (for vertical stacking) would result in a reasonably light-weight, can-run-on-the-crap-electricity-often-found-in-dives Class A/B, linear PS-equipped, 350 Watt RMS, 4x8" neo line array (or two 2x8" wedge/bass/vocal monitors).

What would it cost Yorkville Sound/Traynor to offer an amp-less DB 300T ext. cab as a custom order? Beyond 4 additional amp feet per cab and a jack for a detachable speaker cable, Nuthin'.

--------

Plan B:

Just attach a Genz-Benz-style retractable tilt-back foot onto the belly of the DB 300 and charge a few bucks more for a feature which would be used by many bass players whose ears aren't located near their knee caps.

mech · #18 09-18-2010, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Doing so reduces the cabinet volume, and that reduces bass response. It also sends mids over the head of the audience, as they're not standing ten feet or less from the cab. Stacking a pair of 2x cabs with vertically aligned drivers does a much better job, as it gets the top cab near ear level and doubles midrange horizontal dispersion compared to a 4x.

^^^This. Any slant cab will need to be larger in height, width or depth to make up the volume lost. Look at how deep the slant cabs posted are. They are also much more expensive to build due to the complicated woodwork.

I use a vertically aligned stack whenever possible for the reasons Bill gave.

Cabs with vertical and slanted drivers can have phasing/comb filtering probs, too.

mech

Ben Clarke · #19 10-01-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

Lemme guess...

...It's too bad T' doesn't offer a proper matching 2x8" extension cab (mixed full-range rigs

) for the 2x8" DB 300T combo instead of the TC 112 ext. cab (which does match for the 1x12" DB 300 combo).

Even an ext. cabinet formed by a DB 300T cab & speakers minus the head, with feet added on one end of both cabs (for vertical stacking) would result in a reasonably light-weight, can-run-on-the-crap-electricity-often-found-in-dives Class A/B, linear PS-equipped, 350 Watt RMS, 4x8" neo line array (or two 2x8" wedge/bass/vocal monitors).

What would it cost Yorkville Sound/Traynor to offer an amp-less DB 300T ext. cab as a custom order? Beyond 4 additional amp feet per cab and a jack for a detachable speaker cable, Nuthin'.
...snip

That's the one. I think it worked because the angle of the 300T reduced the interaction between the two cabinets' outputs... or I just got lucky.

You should rock that vertical 8 idea. If you had two combos, just pull the amp out of the cab and use it with other cabs (what fun is just one rig anyway?) -it's literally just a few screws, the head slides out and you've got a 300H in your hot little hands to play with as well.