Another gig, this time the Littlemark LMIII!

[DWBass]

Last time I had a gig, I used my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0. It did the job very well but I felt I was at the limit as far as volume goes. I could have squeezed a bit more juice out of it if I needed but I wasn't that comfortable pushing it. This time I used the Littlemark LMIII! Whoa! Outdoor gig. 4ohm load. I had the Gain at 12noon and the Master Volume on, Gasp, 9 o'clock! Holy Cow! The doggone thing was loud as h&!!..

I can't imagine what it would sound like if I had the master at noon! Wow! The sound man was totally befuddled! He couldn't believe the sound coming out of that little thing! Me neither! I still need to learn to tweak the VLE and VPF to get 'my' sound but I love this amp. I'm seriously contemplating selling or trading the Genz Benz for something else.

Here's a clip from the gig (please listen using headphones). The bass you hear is mostly the amp on stage. The soundman said it sounded so good he only added a touch of me in FOH! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzvSph5YpZA




Another shot of the stage rig. Littlemark LMIII (in it's case) atop an Avatar B210 & SB112 both non neos.

[JimmyM]

sounds great. got a killer band there. i must admit that i'm surprised you couldn't get the volume up with the shuttle too, though, especially when you don't have the lmiii up very loud. maybe it's something in the eq. how are your eq's set? i seem to recall the shuttle having a little bit of a scoop but it's been so long since i played one i can't remember now.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

sounds great. got a killer band there. i must admit that i'm surprised you couldn't get the volume up with the shuttle too, though, especially when you don't have the lmiii up very loud. maybe it's something in the eq. how are your eq's set? i seem to recall the shuttle having a little bit of a scoop but it's been so long since i played one i can't remember now.

I think the Littlemark has a more conventional volume setup where the Genz Benz has a more progressive schematic. With the Genz Benz, you almost have to go past 12noon on the input gain and master volume dials to increase volume to match the Littlemark. Kinda hard to explain. I'm not saying the GB isn't loud but I am saying the Littlemark is 'way' louder!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I think the Littlemark has a more conventional volume setup where the Genz Benz has a more progressive schematic. With the Genz Benz, you almost have to go past 12noon on the input gain and master volume dials to increase volume to match the Littlemark. Kinda hard to explain. I'm not saying the GB isn't loud but I am saying the Littlemark is 'way' louder!

Remember, the position of the knobs means absolutely NOTHING when comparing amp output from two different companies. For example, my LMII reaches pretty much full volume (i.e., maximum output prior to power amp limiting kicking in) with the gain control set optimally (just below clip) and the master at around noon. My TecAmp Puma, with the gain set optimally (again, just below clip) doesn't even START to crank until the gain is at 1 o'clock, and seems to reach full output with the master around 3 o'clock (different master volume pot taper).

With the Shuttle, the power amp clip light and the different limiting design tends to confuse many users. The Shuttle 6 will continue to get louder and stay reasonably 'clean' after that power amp limiting kicks in. While I prefer the fatter, fuller, more 'even out of the box' tone of the MB heads, the absolute volume difference at 'maximum output' would not be a deciding factor for me when making a purchase decision.

[countrybassist]

LMII's are awesome. I usually use an Ampeg SVT-CL and an 810, but this summer we've been doing alot of gigs with Jamie Johnson, David Allan Coe, Lonestar, Josh Thompson, which really doesn't allow me room on stage for that rig. So I use a LMII and 2 Aguilar DB112's and it sounds killer! An LMII is probably, at least to my ears, the closest sound to an Ampeg that I've heard.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by KJung

Remember, the position of the knobs means absolutely NOTHING when comparing amp output from two different companies. For example, my LMII reaches pretty much full volume (i.e., maximum output prior to power amp limiting kicking in) with the gain control set optimally (just below clip) and the master at around noon. My TecAmp Puma, with the gain set optimally (again, just below clip) doesn't even START to crank until the gain is at 1 o'clock, and seems to reach full output with the master around 3 o'clock (different master volume pot taper).

With the Shuttle, the power amp clip light and the different limiting design tends to confuse many users. The Shuttle 6 will continue to get louder and stay reasonably 'clean' after that power amp limiting kicks in. While I prefer the fatter, fuller, more 'even out of the box' tone of the MB heads, the absolute volume difference at 'maximum output' would not be a deciding factor for me when making a purchase decision.

Understood! I just prefer the conventional volume control of the Markbass over the Genz Benz but I love both amps.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Understood! I just prefer the conventional volume control of the Markbass over the Genz Benz but I love both amps.

+1 Quite different sounding heads, and a different design approach regarding EQ, limiting, etc.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 Quite different sounding heads, and a different design approach regarding EQ, limiting, etc.

You know, it's funny with the GB Shuttle, I keep forgetting I can go as high as I want (to the clipping point) on the input volume and I tend to just stop at 12noon. When my JO5 was passive, I was almost able to dime the gain knob!! The next time I use the Genz Benz, I'll experiment with the Gain and see how high I can set it. The JO5 is active now.

[JimmyM]

i don't know if they changed it on newer models, but i was never able to get that gain to clip on a shuttle 6 even when i dimed it.

[shadow_FIX]

The differences in volume knob taper aside...the LMIII is a surprisingly loud amp! I've yet to come across a situation where I was outgunned by the band.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i don't know if they changed it on newer models, but i was never able to get that gain to clip on a shuttle 6 even when i dimed it.

Two separate issues... input clip light and power amp limiting light. The input gain is set pretty low on the Shuttle 6, and with a passive bass, many can turn the pre gain all the way up and not hit clip. The power amp limiting light is the one that causes all the confusion, since that in no way indicates you are in a 'danger zone' and should turn down a touch, like virtually every other power amp indicator. This, along with the low input gain design of the input, has caused some of the feeling that the Shuttle 6 is underpowered.

However, again, without the deep boost engaged, the Shuttle 6 has a much thinner sounding low end versus the inherent tone of the MB heads. With the deep switch engaged, it gets WAY deep, eats up headroom, and will still not match the low end response (db's) down low of the LMII. The lower HPF of the Shuttle 9 'fixes' this issue, as does the lower HPF and the very nice VARIABLE bass boost/HPF filter on the Shuttle Max heads (REALLY nice!).

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by shadow_FIX

The differences in volume knob taper aside...the LMIII is a surprisingly loud amp! I've yet to come across a situation where I was outgunned by the band.

From what I witnessed this weekend, it'll never happen in my band! I only had the master volume at 9 o'clock (input volume at 12 noon) and it was d@mn loud!

My settings were:

Input volume: 12 o'clock
Bass: 3 o'clock
Low Mid: 12 o'clock
High Mid: 12 o'clock
Treble: 2 o'clock
VLE: 12 o'clock
VPF: 10 o'clock
Master Volume: 9 o'clock

[KJung]

Originally Posted by DWBass

From what I witnessed this weekend, it'll never happen in my band! I only had the master volume at 9 o'clock (input volume at 12 noon) and it was d@mn loud!

My settings were:

Input volume: 12 o'clock
Bass: 3 o'clock
Low Mid: 12 o'clock
High Mid: 12 o'clock
Treble: 2 o'clock
VLE: 12 o'clock
VPF: 10 o'clock
Master Volume: 9 o'clock

Holy Jeez is that a lot of EQ... whew! I can't imagine rolling that much low end in... you must have a 6db+ boost at between 30 and 40 hz. Wow! But hey, if it sounds good, it sounds good. The most I ever do with mine is cut the bass by a couple of DB... filters off, everything else flat.

Different strokes! I bet that is 'dub-licious' though.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by KJung

Holy Jeez is that a lot of EQ... whew! I can't imagine rolling that much low end in... you must have a 6db+ boost at between 30 and 40 hz. Wow! But hey, if it sounds good, it sounds good. The most I ever do with mine is cut the bass by a couple of DB... filters off, everything else flat.

Different strokes! I bet that is 'dub-licious' though.

It actually sounded good. I may have even had the bass at 2 o'clock but I usually leave my bass pre-amp flat and dial my sound in at the amp. Listen to the video clip posted above. I mix in pretty well. The soundman loved it!

[RickC]

I just got an LMIII and took it out for the first time this weekend. She's sitting atop a UL2-112 / UL2-115 stack. The band is 2 guitars, 2 drummers, and keys; no problem keeping up. The Little Mark barely broke a sweat.

What really impressed me about the sound was the punch I was getting. Especially with the Darkstars, it is un-freakin-believable. I felt like I had gone 15 rounds with Joe Frazier by the end of the night.





/rick

[KJung]

Originally Posted by RickC

I just got an LMIII and took it out for the first time this weekend. She's sitting atop a UL2-112 / UL2-115 stack. The band is 2 guitars, 2 drummers, and keys; no problem keeping up. The Little Mark barely broke a sweat.

What really impressed me about the sound was the punch I was getting. Especially with the Darkstars, it is un-freakin-believable. I felt like I had gone 15 rounds with Joe Frazier by the end of the night.

There is something quite magic in the Markbass/Epifani pairing. Nice rig!

Interestingly, both Epifani and Markbass used B&C drivers in their cabs (Epifani moved to Eminence for cost and supply reasons a couple of years ago), and the original combo amp offered by Nick many years ago (early 90's maybe) was powered by a Parsec amp.... (that changed its name to Markbass a while back, from what I understand). So, lots of synergies between the two brands.

K

[pacojas]

great sounding band, DW!!!

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by pacojas

great sounding band, DW!!!

Thanks, pacojas!!

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by KJung

There is something quite magic in the Markbass/Epifani pairing. Nice rig!

Interestingly, both Epifani and Markbass used B&C drivers in their cabs (Epifani moved to Eminence for cost and supply reasons a couple of years ago), and the original combo amp offered by Nick many years ago (early 90's maybe) was powered by a Parsec amp.... (that changed its name to Markbass a while back, from what I understand). So, lots of synergies between the two brands.

K

Parsec amps were pretty nice too. I tried one with a first run Epi 1-15 and it was sweet. Agreed, lots of synergy between the two.

I actually use gain setting similar to Dave's (minus all of the tweaks) on most of my gigs. Usually no higher than 11 o'clock with an active bass, master at 9, maybe 10 o'clock max. What I found is I still have the ability to go way louder and don't necessarily hit any kind of wall at 4 ohms with both gains at noon and a pretty aggressive active bass plugged in. Did it with a 4 ohm Eden D410XLT and while there were no signs of stress with the amp, it sounded like I could've easily blowed up that cab with the volume on tap. Just keep turning it up.

[RickC]

Originally Posted by KJung

There is something quite magic in the Markbass/Epifani pairing. Nice rig!

Interestingly, both Epifani and Markbass used B&C drivers in their cabs (Epifani moved to Eminence for cost and supply reasons a couple of years ago), and the original combo amp offered by Nick many years ago (early 90's maybe) was powered by a Parsec amp.... (that changed its name to Markbass a while back, from what I understand). So, lots of synergies between the two brands.

K

I actually went back and forth quite a bit trying to decide between the LMIII and the F500, fueled to a large degree by *your* comments on TB re the two, and by one of your demo videos. They were very useful; thanks. I'm still interested in trying out an F1/F500 with the rest of my rig, for comparison.

/rick