Another Heritage SVT-CL question.

[Alex1984]

Has anyone actually opened up their Heritage SVT-CL to look inside? I've done a search and most of the discussions just focus on the tone rather than the technical aspects.

Quoted from JGR's thread:

· All PCBs are reengineered. This not only includes the thicker profile as well as plated thru hole, but thicker traces as well.
· The stock tubes are JJ/Tesla and Svetlana, instead of Sovteks.
· Tolex, grill and graphics are similar to late 70’s SVT’s.

I've heard people say it's simply better quality components and tubes, and others like Spencer say it's also got a different circuit board, and QC, etc.

This maybe a stupid question, but I'm quite curious about the extent of "reengineering" done to it. Also, if it is indeed a tweaked design, did they use the SVT-CL as the base and made it closer to a vintage SVT, or did they go back to the vintage design and added a master volume?

[coreyfyfe]

It's an SVT-CL with upgraded components. The circuit boards were produced with better parts/thicker traces/etc but it's still the same SVT-CL circuit.

[Alex1984]

No tweaks even to component values?

[okcrum]

The photos of the preamp board I've seen show all the same components as my regular SVT-CL.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by Alex1984

No tweaks even to component values?

No sense modifying things that don't need to be changed. Thicker boards, thicker traces etc can help improve long term reliability, but component values are/were optimized for that head/circuit and it wouldn't make much sense to change the design there.

[JimmyM]

it's got an upgraded grillcloth, too

tom bowlus says that he thought the heritage sounded closer to his vintage svt than anything else he's heard, and i've heard from everyone who's played it that the cabs are improved over the imported cabs (although i think those imported cabs sound darn good). unfortunately, i have yet to play one so i can't tell you anything firsthand except i like the grillcloth a lot better. but really, i don't know how much "improving" to the head i could tolerate. i'm with corey...changing the design isn't really warranted.

[seamonkey]

Same clipping diodes?

[Alex1984]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

tom bowlus says that he thought the heritage sounded closer to his vintage svt than anything else he's heard

Tom Bowlus's description is exactly what started my whole question. I was wondering if they did anything to make it more vintage. Seemed like most people didn't find the CL to be very similar to the old SVTs.

[Tim1]

As I recall Tom Bowlus also said that this could have been due to the cabinet as much as the head - he did not have the opportunity to try it with a "standard" cab to compare.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by Alex1984

Tom Bowlus's description is exactly what started my whole question. I was wondering if they did anything to make it more vintage. Seemed like most people didn't find the CL to be very similar to the old SVTs.

IMO it's the cab in this case. The speakers are supposedly the new Eminence B810 speakers which were designed to sound more like the vintage CTS speakers in the original square-back SVT 8x10 cabs than the stock speakers in the modern 8x10 cabs.

[Buster Brown]

Frankly I don't think there was ever any intention of "re-engineering". The only difference that I can see between the "standard" CL and the Heritage is simply the build quality.

I expect my Heritage CL to last me the rest of my lifetime and would be upset if it didn't. Everything in the build of the Heritage has been upgraded. Does that justify the extra expense? Well, obviously only the customer can determine that, but in my case, it was more than worth it.

The tonal characteristics however, IMO, come from the HSVT-8X10. When I have AB'd one cab to the other, I can hear a distinct difference. But, to be fair, that could be my ears but I am absolutely certain that it was what sold me IMMEDIATELY on the Heritage gear.

I now own both the head and the cab and have been thrilled to death with the acquisition....but, of course, YMMV

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

IMO it's the cab in this case. The speakers are supposedly the new Eminence B810 speakers which were designed to sound more like the vintage CTS speakers in the original square-back SVT 8x10 cabs than the stock speakers in the modern 8x10 cabs.

after seeing pics of both the b810 and the speakers they use in the heritage 810e, they're different. i once thought that at one time, but the pics prove otherwise.

[Mastermold]

Originally Posted by okcrum

The photos of the preamp board I've seen show all the same components as my regular SVT-CL.

I bought my SVT-CL new in 2007, it's made in the USA (probably 2005 or 2006 -- haven't confirmed the serial number). When the Heritage version came out I wondered if there would be any difference.

[tombowlus]

We are working on a more detailed review of the Heritage CL, and undoubtedly, we'll have more to share, then. My personal recollections were that the Heritage CL sounded more like my '74 SVT than I recall the previous SVT-CL's I had used (which I had never owned, and only tried either in a store or when it was someone else's rig). It is also very much worth noting that I believe that almost every time I auditioned an SVT-CL, it was through an Ampeg cab of the same era, so that needs to be factored into the equation.

That being said, when I did the little tube head shootout with Phil Maneri, we were playing through his VL-208's, and everyone in the store remarked how that Heritage SVT-CL was the best sounding SVT they had heard. FWIW, Phil is the guy that I bought my '74 SVT off of, and he has owned several other SVT's.

Different tubes, different circuit boards, different wiring layout, possibly different soldering techniques... these are what I know to be different about the Heritage head versus its import counterpart. I was able to directly compare the Heritage cab to a Vietnam-made SVT-810e, and made some interesting observations, there, as well. But that is a story for a different time...

At any rate, keep in mind that this is all IME/IMHO, and YMMV.

Tom.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Tim1

As I recall Tom Bowlus also said that this could have been due to the cabinet as much as the head - he did not have the opportunity to try it with a "standard" cab to compare.

To clarify, I did have the opportunity to play the Heritage head through both the Heritage SVT-810 and a standard (Vietnam-made) SVT-810e. What I was not able to do was to hear an import SVT-CL (or even an older American-made CL) through anything other than a "same era" SVT-810.

I do want to say that the newer SVT-810e strikes me as being a far better cab than what I recall of the SVT-810's of the early '90s.

Tom.

[okcrum]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

We are working on a more detailed review of the Heritage CL, and undoubtedly, we'll have more to share, then. My personal recollections were that the Heritage CL sounded more like my '74 SVT than I recall the previous SVT-CL's I had used (which I had never owned, and only tried either in a store or when it was someone else's rig). It is also very much worth noting that I believe that almost every time I auditioned an SVT-CL, it was through an Ampeg cab of the same era, so that needs to be factored into the equation.

That being said, when I did the little tube head shootout with Phil Maneri, we were playing through his VL-208's, and everyone in the store remarked how that Heritage SVT-CL was the best sounding SVT they had heard. FWIW, Phil is the guy that I bought my '74 SVT off of, and he has owned several other SVT's.

Different tubes, different circuit boards, different wiring layout, possibly different soldering techniques... these are what I know to be different about the Heritage head versus its import counterpart. I was able to directly compare the Heritage cab to a Vietnam-made SVT-810e, and made some interesting observations, there, as well. But that is a story for a different time...

At any rate, keep in mind that this is all IME/IMHO, and YMMV.

Tom.

Tom, I'll go along with different tubes, boards and transformers, but not the layout, and not the parts. Especially after going over a photo of the Heritage CL preamp board component by component. The parts are all the same. They're all the same values. They're all in the same locations. The board and tubes are different, but that's all.

Maybe I just got a special MIK CL by mistake.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by okcrum

Tom, I'll go along with different tubes, boards and transformers, but not the layout, and not the parts.

I was told by the Ampeg folks at the 2010 Winter NAMM when they introduced the Heritage SVT-CL that the assemblers in the USA ran some of the wiring differently than the assemblers overseas. I cannot confirm/deny this, though that is what I was told. Other than the tubes and boards, though, I was not told of any parts being different.

[okcrum]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

I was told by the Ampeg folks at the 2010 Winter NAMM when they introduced the Heritage SVT-CL that the assemblers in the USA ran some of the wiring differently than the assemblers overseas. I cannot confirm/deny this, though that is what I was told. Other than the tubes and boards, though, I was not told of any parts being different.

Ah, yeah. I can't confirm from the limited info I have that the wiring harnesses are all done the same, just the board parts/layout and all connectors on the preamp. I'd have to A-B the two CLs side by side, strip 'em down, and compare to do that. Then reassemble.

[JGR]

I had two USA made CL's for quite some time, and I always thought they were great heads. Never understood all the bashing that they weren't real SVT's, and its funny all the love the CL's are getting now. I also briefly owned a USA made VR, and I ended up not liking it nearly as much as the CL's, and returned it. I would wager that if you put the same quality tubes in an older CL, it will sound the same as the Heritage. Folks often hear with their eyes and wallets. Other than maybe reducing some background noise, the upgraded PCB's are not going to change the tone. All the components, including the trannies, are the same as before. Better tubes are an improvement, but I used to run the same ones in mine, so again, I would expect them to sound the same. Like folks have mentioned, the biggest improvement is in the new cabinets as a result of the new speakers. They also finally added t-nuts instead of the BS wood screws they used to use which were a nightmare. I ended up adding them to a SVT210 I had. Cost about $3. I'm glad they improved the PCB quality - I did have some buzz issues with one of my CL's due to the way the preamp PCB was grounded, and I know another TB'er did as well since I helped him fix it. What I don't understand is how prices never went down when manufacturing moved overseas, and then jumped $700 coming back to the states. The upgrades probably don't add more than $50 to the unit cost.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by JGR

I had two USA made CL's for quite some time, and I always thought they were great heads. Never understood all the bashing that they weren't real SVT's, and its funny all the love the CL's are getting now.

thank you i recall most svt lovers complaining about them until i started saying i liked them. it's still my #2 favorite svt, but it's a strong #2 imho.

I also briefly owned a USA made VR, and I ended up not liking it nearly as much as the CL's, and returned it. I would wager that if you put the same quality tubes in an older CL, it will sound the same as the Heritage. Folks often hear with their eyes and wallets. Other than maybe reducing some background noise, the upgraded PCB's are not going to change the tone. All the components, including the trannies, are the same as before. Better tubes are an improvement, but I used to run the same ones in mine, so again, I would expect them to sound the same. Like folks have mentioned, the biggest improvement is in the new cabinets as a result of the new speakers. They also finally added t-nuts instead of the BS wood screws they used to use which were a nightmare. I ended up adding them to a SVT210 I had. Cost about $3. I'm glad they improved the PCB quality - I did have some buzz issues with one of my CL's due to the way the preamp PCB was grounded, and I know another TB'er did as well since I helped him fix it. What I don't understand is how prices never went down when manufacturing moved overseas, and then jumped $700 coming back to the states. The upgrades probably don't add more than $50 to the unit cost.

what i heard from ampeg was that they had to move in order to not have a price increase. they lost the usa transformer supplier when they highballed them in order to get out of the svt transformer business, and their choice was build them in china or pay way too much. ya, i know...corporate speak from the former head idiot, but if i quit buying from companies who raised their prices for flimsy reasons, i'd own nothing

and at least they haven't gone up in 5 years...so it could be worse.