|  | | 
11-27-2011, 02:29 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Columbine Valley, Colorado | | | ANOTHER new Acme is cominng !!!
Sign in to disble this ad
I just returned home from visiting a club with Andy Lewis to hear our friend Jack play Andy’s initial prototype of the next Acme bass cabinet: a neo 2x12. IMO, it’s pretty unbelievable. Somewhat to my surprise, Andy gave me the OK to share it with friends here on TalkBass. It’s late and there are many details we didn’t have a chance to discuss and many yet to be determined, but here’s what I know at this moment. Similarities. It has the same Duratex finish as the Series IIIs and it’s the same box size as the Low B-4, with the same deep-set side handles. It has the same drivers as the Flatwound and the FullRange, as well as the same tweeter (only one; no attenuator). The 12s also have the same pressed grilles as the Flatwound/FullRange. Differences. The drivers are mounted back-to-back with one driver pointing forward, from the front of the cabinet, and the other pointing backward from the back of the cabinet. The drivers are not centered. On the front of the cabinet, there is one driver and its grill cover in the upper left corner, plus two round ports. On the back of the cabinet, there is the other driver and its grill cover in the upper right corner, plus the jack plate to the left of the grill.
Weight/Rigidity. Andy is using a new, lighter, sandwich-type material for the cabinet with a new bracing system he designed. Those of you who own a Flatwound or FullRange know how solid and absolutely rigid those boxes are. This one is even more so. Best of all, with those neo drivers Eminence makes for Andy, the box weighs a total of 50 lbs., maybe slightly less. Sound. The sound was HUGE. Deep and warm, as most Acme fans like, and every bit as clean and articulate as the Flatwoumd or FullRange—even at very high volumes. This club has a very large and sophisticated house PA and recording/video system with a separate, professional-quality recording studio in an enclosed, adjacent room. Jack was fueling the 2x12 with a QSC bridged to 2,000 watts at 4 ohms and he plugged into a Demeter Preamp (I couldn’t see which models). The recording console was taking a DI feed from the Demeter and the 2x12 was miked with a single, on-axis microphone. Both signals were going into the recording console. We went into the recording studio during the break and the recording engineer played the isolated DI bass track and the isolated bass track from the miked cab. None of us could tell the miked cab track from the DI track until I pointed out a tiny bit of cymbal noise that bled into the miked track. The recording engineer called it absolutely the cleanest and most articulate bass reproduction from a speaker cabinet he had ever heard, especially below 100Hz. Though there wasn’t an opportunity to see how loud Jack’s rig would actually get, he played one set with no assist from the house PA and another set with the miked feed going into the house PA. With the miked signal mixed into the FOH at the volume level the house PA technician believed to be approximately the same as the ambient signal from the prior set, we couldn’t tell the difference--even though the house PA included eight JBL 18” drivers.
Timing and Other Details TBD. There are a myriad of details that are yet to be determined, such as name, price, availability, options (if any), etc. I’m sure many of you remember how long it took Andy to get the FullRange to market—more than a year after the intended introduction date. He does plan to do some further refinements and have a prototype of the 2x12 at NAMM in January. Hopefully that will help get this box to market with less delay than the FullRange.
Are you looking for a replacement for your 80-90 lb. 4x10? Be sure to keep your eye out for the new Acme 2x12 in the next few (?) months. As always, I’ll post more when I know more.
__________________ Bluesy Soul 
...been down since I began to crawl
What would Jamerson do ? |
11-27-2011, 07:07 AM
|  | Keepin' the Groove Alive ! | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Stax 1966 | | | Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a cab like that . What's the theory behind back to back drivers ?
__________________
R.I.P Duck Dunn, 2012.
|
11-27-2011, 07:24 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bristol, Connecticut, USA | | | I'm going to guess and say that the box is probably being used as an acoustic low pass filter, allowing only bass frequencies to be heard from the rear driver.
__________________
Hoof Hearted
Last edited by MuzikMan : 12-19-2011 at 12:19 PM.
|
11-27-2011, 07:28 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA | | | so cool
__________________
it's cheaper to keep 'er
|
11-27-2011, 07:31 AM
|  | Secret Member | | Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nashville, TN | | | Subscribed. I'm curious about the design. |
11-27-2011, 07:32 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: MA | | Subbed!  |
11-27-2011, 01:19 PM
|  | only immortal for a limited time
Owner & speaker designer, AudioKinesis | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Preston, Idaho | | | Very cool! Andy comes up with innovations and refinements that push the leading edge, especially in the very deep/very accurate end of the market. I can think of several advantages (both sonically and physically) to that configuration. And, I sympathize with Andy on the long roads between concept, prototype, and production cab. |
11-28-2011, 11:46 AM
|  | Resident Packer Fanatic | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Madison, Wisconsin | | | Cool! So now our drummer gets my bass right at him! |
11-28-2011, 11:51 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Columbine Valley, Colorado | | Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpackerguy  Cool! So now our drummer gets my bass right at him! | The drummer started complimenting the cabinet to Jack right away. Jack told him the guy who designed the cabinet was in the audience and the drummer came straight over and introduced himself to us at the first break. He was gushing about the clean, articulate, yet still warm low end the cab had and, of course, the fact that he could now hear it so well.
__________________ Bluesy Soul
...been down since I began to crawl
What would Jamerson do ? |
11-28-2011, 12:12 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Columbine Valley, Colorado | | Quote:
Originally Posted by jnewmark Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a cab like that . What's the theory behind back to back drivers ? | According to Andy, the opposed drivers accomplish a number of things, but the main effect he was seeking from it was NOT added volume. It was to stabilize the cabinet itself. By creating two equal forces that are exerted 180 degrees from each other, the forces effectively cancel one another out and the box has no internally-generated inertia to move in any direction. Andy says this inertia isn't generally a problem in a 90-100-lb. cabinet, but becomes a problem in a lighter (50 lbs. and less) box. Lighter cabs start wanting to walk or crawl across the stage on their own.
Andy started by working with lighter, composite/sandwich materials to combine with his neo drivers to get a lighter overall cabinet weight, and rapidly realized "box creep" was going to be an issue. He knew that a second driver, given the less directional nature of lower notes, was going to add volume no matter where he placed it; so he decided to try direct opposition. In the process, he thinks he also picked up about 3 db in SPL, so the big box is more efficient that previous Acmes as well.
__________________ Bluesy Soul
...been down since I began to crawl
What would Jamerson do ? |
11-28-2011, 12:31 PM
| | | FASCINATING! |
11-28-2011, 12:34 PM
| | | | Isn't there going to be an issue for those stuck in a crammed corner or backwall with little clearance??? |
11-28-2011, 01:08 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesy Soul According to Andy, the opposed drivers accomplish a number of things, but the main effect he was seeking from it was NOT added volume. It was to stabilize the cabinet itself. By creating two equal forces that are exerted 180 degrees from each other, the forces effectively cancel one another out and the box has no internally-generated inertia to move in any direction. Andy says this inertia isn't generally a problem in a 90-100-lb. cabinet, but becomes a problem in a lighter (50 lbs. and less) box. Lighter cabs start wanting to walk or crawl across the stage on their own.
Andy started by working with lighter, composite/sandwich materials to combine with his neo drivers to get a lighter overall cabinet weight, and rapidly realized "box creep" was going to be an issue. He knew that a second driver, given the less directional nature of lower notes, was going to add volume no matter where he placed it; so he decided to try direct opposition. In the process, he thinks he also picked up about 3 db in SPL, so the big box is more efficient that previous Acmes as well. | In my decades of using lightweight cabs, I've never had one move a fraction of an inch. A well braced cab should not vibrate much less move. That being said, if he picked up 3db SPL, that would be pretty typical of just adding another driver to a cab. |
11-28-2011, 01:19 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by KJung In my decades of using lightweight cabs, I've never had one move a fraction of an inch. | It's not uncommon with very light cabs and very high low frequency output. Quote: |
A well braced cab should not vibrate much less move
| It's not a vibration issue, which this does not affect per se. Think of each driver as propeller, pushing and pulling the box with each stroke. Opposed drivers cancel out that motion. Quote: |
if he picked up 3db SPL, that would be pretty typical of just adding another driver to a cab.
| True, there's nothing about this configuration that would increase sensitivity over a standard alignment. Quote: |
Isn't there going to be an issue for those stuck in a crammed corner or backwall with little clearance???
| A few inches clearance is all the rear driver should need. |
11-28-2011, 01:39 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice ...
A few inches clearance is all the rear driver should need. | Cool ... thanks |
11-28-2011, 01:46 PM
|  | Less Ebay, more Mel Bay | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ | | | I'd expect the biggest improvement overall would be in dispersion. You probably go from a realistic 60 degree pattern overall to more like full coverage.
Should get 3db down in the omnidirectional regions, but less so the higher up you go (and the narrower your pattern gets).
__________________
Dingwall ABZ 5
Lots of pedals
Markbass SD1200 -> fEarful 1515/66 (or TC115N) Red Complex |
11-28-2011, 02:54 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA | | | Very cool. Subscribed. |
11-28-2011, 02:59 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsands I'd expect the biggest improvement overall would be in dispersion. You probably go from a realistic 60 degree pattern overall to more like full coverage.
. | In the mids and highs the dispersion will be a cardioid pattern, so it's not without its limitations. |
11-28-2011, 04:47 PM
| | Resident Packer Fanatic | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Madison, Wisconsin | | Quote:
Originally Posted by KJung In my decades of using lightweight cabs, I've never had one move a fraction of an inch. A well braced cab should not vibrate much less move. That being said, if he picked up 3db SPL, that would be pretty typical of just adding another driver to a cab. | Stuff moving on TOP of the cab...not THAT's a different issue!  |
11-29-2011, 05:30 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpackerguy Stuff moving on TOP of the cab...not THAT's a different issue! | With a poorly designed cab without sufficient bracing, +1.
Again, if the primary reason for the design of this cab is 'to stop it moving around the stage', it is literally a solution to a problem that doesn't exist IMO and IME.
Again, just trying to provide some feedback in the design phase of the product. Given the size of that cab, I would think there are better ways for Andy to spend his time if he wants to design a larger 212 box that will compete in the market place.
Last edited by KJung : 11-29-2011 at 05:34 AM.
| | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | |
