ANOTHER (!) Peavey2-15 spkr replacement question; 1976 version; simple answers?

[Joshcop]

Thanks in advance for the help.
Simple situation: I just acquired a '76 Peavey Musician "Series-400" head; it says "210 Watts" by the dual output speaker jacks on the back, and "700 Watts 60 Hz" above the power cord on the back. From the little I've seen elsewhere about this head, its a 210-watt head. Not sure why it says 700 watts on it as well.
I acquired at the same time the matching 1976 2x15 cabinet with blown speakers. At first, I wasn't even interested in the cab because of the trashed subs, but the lady I bought the head from told me I had to take the cabinet if I was buying the head. Then I realized when I got it home that it's actually kind of cool to have the head & cab as a matching pair, so I'm glad I took it.
The head is fine, and all the inputs & outputs work, as do the distortion/fuzz effects, eq, etc. Obviously, the subs rattle like a sonofabi+ch, but I just wanted to make sure the head was good.
I replaced a friend's Peavey 15" combo sub a couple of months ago after I shattered it by boosting too much bass with the actives on my Fernandes Tremor Deluxe, tuned B/E/A/D. The re-coning (in paper) cost me $80 and he's quite happy with it.
Is this the most cost-effective option to bring my cab back to life? I'm no math wiz in any way, shape, or form, nor am I a structural or sound engineer, so as far as any custom work goes on the cab, it would be left to someone else, and I don't have the budget for that. I'm looking for a simple plug-&-play speaker solution. I can solder new connections after getting them, but as far as changing port sizes or dimensions, that's out.
I realize that this topic has been dealt with before, in fact several times. However, selfishly speaking, I wanted to post a new thread so that my info doesn't get lost in the mix, and so that I don't look like a jerkoff by hijacking someone else's thread.
The speakers are the square-backed-magnet monsters, with the following printed on them:
Peavey 15854B , 15-1565 , 137 7644 on a black back for the top sub, and
Peavey 15854BC-1 , 67-7620 on a silver back for the bottom one.
I realize that some of the markings indicate 1976, but I'm not sure why the backs are two different colors.
Lastly, I want to, eventually if not now, put a tweeter in the cab, probably in the port between the two subs, because I like a lot of sizzle with my Peter Steele-type sizzle & distortion. Is this as easy as just using a crossover ahead of the tweeter while tapping into the sub + and - connections?

Okay, so I did mention initially that this was a simple situation, so my apologies for rambling. I just need a cheap, good sounding solution for loud bass. Thanks.........

[1n3]

Originally Posted by Joshcop

The speakers are the square-backed-magnet monsters, with the following printed on them:
Peavey 15854B , 15-1565 , 137 7644 on a black back for the top sub, and
Peavey 15854BC-1 , 67-7620 on a silver back for the bottom one.
I realize that some of the markings indicate 1976, but I'm not sure why the backs are two different colors.

Different manufacturers. 137=CTS, 67=Eminence.

[bassplayer8953]

A couple of these:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/product...product=PS15-4

Your Peavey cabinet won't handle 400 watts x 2 without a major fuss, but a pair of those will take just about any amp you can point at them. I used (1) of these to replace a Black Widow in a 1 x 15 Peavey enclosure, and the combination Carvin/Celestion driver & Peavey cab works superb. $140 for the pair + shipping & you're in business. (also available in 8 ohms)

[Joshcop]

1n3, I was hoping you'd chime in on this thread, given your Peavey background that I saw on the onther 215 threads!
Not that it matters if I end up getting them re-coned, but why would a cab have two different 76 subs? Was this a factory thing, or is it safe to assume the new owner in 1976 promptly blew one up and replaced it the same year?
Also... your overall opinion on the cost effectiveness of reconing verus replacements would be appreciated. For what it's worth, the baskets appear to be identical. The tag on the back by the input shows 4 ohm and the model is 215 Enclosure, and a serial number embossed "5E-" followed by printed numbers.

[Joshcop]

bassplayer8953- we were typing at the same time; didn't mean to ignore you. The input is greatly appreciated.

But.... the model is a "Series-400", but again by the speaker output jack it says "210 Watts."
If I'm missing anything, let me know. This would be considered a 210-watt head, right? 210 X 2?

[will33]

The old Peavey square magnet speakers were "ok" for their day but they really are fartboxes. Which speaker box do you have? Shallow or Deep? The deeper ones are considered better for good reason. More space = more lowend. The shallow ones can be resurrected as sealed 215's with the stuff that's available nowdays. The answer is almost always going to be eminence replacements. The question is which one, depending on the box you have and your fix-it-up, saw, glue and screw skills.

Those old square magnet speakers are the same thing that was in the old TNT100's which I refer to as the greatest fartbox of them all. They would serve a better purpose in a cheap vocal monitor or something.

[Joshcop]

My cab is 40" H by 25" W 14&1/2" Deep. The port between them is 21w x 5&1/2 tall, with a 1" divider between them that seals them off from each other except for maybe a 1/8" hole where the speaker wire runs through (so, effectively, sealed I supose).

[1n3]

Originally Posted by Joshcop

Not that it matters if I end up getting them re-coned, but why would a cab have two different 76 subs? Was this a factory thing, or is it safe to assume the new owner in 1976 promptly blew one up and replaced it the same year?

I don't know. Peavey used both vendors then. Conceivable that they considered the speakers interchangeable, and it was built that way. Your other theory is also plausible.

Also... your overall opinion on the cost effectiveness of reconing verus replacements would be appreciated. For what it's worth, the baskets appear to be identical.

Do you know the cost of reconing? I don't. They aren't great speakers by today's standards. Relatively small box, relatively high tuning, and (I assume) an underdamped speaker... not a recipe for great sound, but some liked it. You could say "it is what it is", and go with whatever's cheap. Recone, used, eBay... whatever.

Or you could spend a lot more money turning it into something better. Some will recommend a couple Eminence 3015s. Those would do better than most 15" speakers you could find, and would be better than original. But I'm a cheapskate. I wouldn't dump roughly $300 into a crummy box. I'd want to modify the ports to match the enclosure and drivers; not a simple undertaking. If you did all that, you'd still have a heavy cab. (chipboard vs plywood would make a little difference to me)

Put me in the "it is what it is" camp, I guess. I wouldn't bother with a tweeter either. First, I don't like the sound, and second (much discussed here), they cross over too high to work well with a 15. Also not a good match if you want to use distortion.

These are my personal biases... YMMV. There may be a cheap speaker that's a good match for this cabinet. Offhand, I don't know what it would be, but others might. Hope so, 'cuz this question keeps coming up. So far, I haven't seen a recommendation (aside from the 3015) that was based on specs and measurements.

[Joshcop]

Reconing the aforementioned friend's single 15 a few moths ago was $80, so I'm looking at $160 for the pair to get them back to original spec, which, I'm starting to feel from opinions here and elsewhere, might just be a marginal-sound way to go. However, it would be more sound than what I have now, which is 100W/channel through my home stereo with '80s KLH speakers with 12s on a hardwood floor with 5 feet of room under the house, or, alternately, other bassist's miked Peavey combos out of the jam room if I play live at a local venue.
I, too, am a "cheapskate", albeit out of necessity thanks to my backwards-logic-payscale career choice. If I had the opportunity to spend "a lot" more money, I'd probably surf the local Craigslist and pick up a modern cab, a 4x10 or more, and just run the Peavey head into that. From everything I've read, the Peavey head has got a BUNCH of power, though I'm still confused as to exactly how much. But nobody complains about the power in the reviews that usually start out "I just got this *old* Peavey Series 400 head..."
So, if it's feasibly/relatively cheap (the $160 is about $40 under what I can spend right now) and would be a decent or acceptable sound combo with the head, I might go that way, if even just for the nostalgia factor of having both 1976 pieces on stage together every now & then. If a newer used cab, say, a 4x10, might be just as cheap ($200 or less), or maybe a 1X15 or 2x10 (???who knows???) of modern design sound better, I'm open to the idea.

And as far as the tweeter idea not working, I'll research that and take the advice under coinsideration. Thanks for probably saving me a pain in the a** in mounting and wiring one.

[will33]

Dont' waste your time reconing those things, you can buy new stuff now for just a little more than that and you'll end up with a much better speaker. Folks will say, "get a kappalite 15" and on and on and that is a good suggestion but pretty much anything you put in there will be better than those things. A pair of delta15's, 15LF's, beta's, Legend's, basslites, deltalites, kapplites, they're all better than that. As are some Celestion's, EV's, Daytons, Carvins, 1505DT-8 Black Widows, CTS, JBL or countless other speakers. You don't have to get very far up the ladder to be better than those old Peavey squarebacks. Basically, whatever you stick in there is going to be better, just to what degree is what you need to decide.

[Joshcop]

That makes sense... I see the models you're listing and I don't have a clue yet as to what each one is, or who they're made by, but that's usually the case until, out of necessity, I need to research something and make a purchase. I re-coned the friend's 15 simply because it was the easist and quickest thing to do in between my practic night and his, and I didn't feel like going through the hassle of finding out the most budget-compatible replacement... like I'm doing now that it's *my* cabinet and I need *two* of them!
Ok, I'm going to plead ignorance and make an ohm request, as I'm still in the dark about what the hell the ohm ratings are.......... I know there's a FAQ sticky that covers this, and I'm headed there next. But as I've been checking Ebay under "15 inch bass speakers" in the past half-hour, I haven't had a clue as to what would work best with my '76 head, which says "2 ohm" right beside the "210 Watts". MOst of the replacements are 8 ohm, 16, etc etc. I completely missed that "2 ohm" thing earlier when I was listing specs about the head. Oops.

I'm seriously not as thick-skulled as some of you might be thinking right about now... I'm a reasonably intelligent individual, PeterSteele-and-self-taught on bass, and I am cursed with perfect pitch.........

[1n3]

If reconing is $80/speaker, then I agree with will33 - new speakers would be a better investment. He mentions many of the available models, any of which probably would be as good as or better than the originals. When I looked at this before (recent thread) the problem I found when plugging speakers into a WAG'd model was that cheaper speakers looked like they'd be pretty boomy in that cabinet. The speakers that did best in that cab were those with the highest damping, which were also the most expensive.

That was probably a little different 215 cab than you've got, judging from your description of the port. Might help to post a photo of the cab, with the grill off. Also, those cab dimensions are exterior, yes? Interior is what matters.

As for the "ohms rating", you want 8 ohm speakers - two of them will give you a 4 ohm cabinet.

[billfitzmaurice]

Load the cab with Eminence Beta 15s. They'll literally work in just about any cab, so no need to go through any re-tuning, and with only 210 watts it's all the driver you need at a good price. Be sure to line the cab with damping (do a search) as otherwise response will be quite poor. IMO reconing the old drivers would be a total waste of $. They were cheap drivers even by 1976 standards.

[Oren Hudson]

I've learned a great deal about vintage Peavey bass gear over the last year, by far no expert, but, I'll try and answer/comment on some of your questions, assumptions and issues to the best of my knowledge.

The 700 watts deal is the power rating for the outlet plug (used as a power source for other electrical devices) and has nothing to do with the amps output power.

The different brands speakers is probably because they are not the original speakers for this cab. The cab number that you give indicates that it is a 1985 (5E 5=5 and E=Eighty giving you 1985. There should be another number on that tag in the lower right hand side something like this - 85 followed by a capital letter. The capital letter is the month of construction of the cab. Example -85C would indicate March 1985. So, the '76 speakers would appear to not be original to the cab. Although it appears that Emminences were found as the standard speaker in that time period. I am generally a purist about vintage gear and would re-cone the speakers if they were original to keep the rig original. However, it looks like you may have a mixed head/cab rig and non-original speakers. If this is all accurate, I would follow the advice of those on good replacements.

On the head, my 400 Series Mark IV head has the two speaker jacks and written underneath them is 210 watts RMS @ 4ohms and 300 @ 2ohms. This head also has the date of 1982 on the front under right hand side underneath Peavey bass etc. etc.

Hope this helps some.

[NoGraveConcern]

I second the motion for Beta 15's. You can get them from Amazon for around 50 ea and they will handle the power of of your 210 w amp fine. Note, these are not "subs", nor were the originals, nor are the speakers in almost any bass cab.

[Joshcop]

You daylight/morning people are helpful too, so thanks! I go to bed around 4a-5a and wake up around the crack of noon, Central time.
I'm trying to upload pics; I'll know in a few minutes if it worked. I had to wait for daylight to put the cab on the front porch in order to get some decent shots.
The dimensions I quoted were outside dimensions... oops again. The corrected measurements are 38"H, 24"W, 12"D.
Yes, the knobs and corners on the head are green. The corner protectors were completely rusty, and the knobs were mismatched and non-original, so it wasn't an issue to me. All of my equipment, basses included, get the black/green treatment.
Oren Hudson- As for the cab being a 1985, I don't think that's the case. Look at the number plate I took the pic of and let me know what you think. I know the jack plate/input plate is not original, and I had to solder the lower speaker connectors back onto it when I got it home, but it works fine now.
Now I'm gonna post the pics, then look around at Beta 15s!(NOTE- I have to link the pics from Imageshack because I used up my allotment of uploads already. What the Hell?! If anyone wants to steal the pics and upload them as images on this thread, FEEL FREE, thanks) Anything cheaper than the Eminence 15s (Kappas, I think, I can't rmember... but they were about $180 each) I was looking at online last night, which had me seriously considering other cabinets entirely.

http://img840.imageshack.us/i/pixx306.jpg/
http://img690.imageshack.us/i/pixx309.jpg/
http://img52.imageshack.us/i/pixx310.jpg/
http://img844.imageshack.us/i/pixx308.jpg/

[Chuck King]

700 watts is how much it draws from the wall. 210 watts is how much it puts out to the speakers. That may be at 2 ohms, though. If you need to get all that power from the head, you'd need to run two 4-ohm cabinets, unless somebody makes 4 ohm speakers.

But, before you start worrying about that, get your cabinet sorted out and see how loud it is---that's an old-school head and will probably be louder than you'd expect for the power rating.

[1n3]

OK, here's what I wanted to see.


A couple surprises here - fiberglass batting, and shelf ports. I'm guessing that divider in the middle of the port is 3/4 thick, not 1". Yes?

Please measure the depth of the shelf. Stick your tape in the bottom port, and get the distance from the back edge (opening to the bottom chamber) to the baffle front (dimension X in the diagram below).

|
|     <- X ->
|     _______
|            |
|            |
|            |
|            |
|____________|

[bassplayer8953]

Originally Posted by Chuck King

700 watts is how much it draws from the wall. 210 watts is how much it puts out to the speakers. That may be at 2 ohms, though. If you need to get all that power from the head, you'd need to run two 4-ohm cabinets, unless somebody makes 4 ohm speakers.

But, before you start worrying about that, get your cabinet sorted out and see how loud it is---that's an old-school head and will probably be louder than you'd expect for the power rating.

The speakers I pointed out to the OP are 4 ohms each:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/product...product=PS15-4 Wired in parallel, would draw 2 ohms.

...so with a relatively modest outlay, he could have the 2 ohm load his head requires to put out its full power.

[Joshcop]

1n3 --- X= 9&8/10ths", so we can say 10". The thickness of the "wall" that the speakers mount into is 3/4", so the volume of the chamber regarding the "X" measurement would be based off of approx 9&1/4". And yes, the accurate measurement for the divider is right at 3/4" (plus maybe a micron or two, haha) now that I have looked at it closely.
bassplayer8953--- those PS15s are looking good for the price... especially since you're running one and can vouch for the sound.

Keep the advice coming, guys.... thanks!!!