Any issues with Class D?

[slopeshoulder]

As soon as I sell something, I'll be getting an amp.
Are there any concerns about class D amps (Markbass, TC, TEC, more all the time: SWR)? Or is this the new standard?
Or is a transformer based amp (e.g. Aguilar AG-500SC) a better choice if I don't mind lifting 20 pounds?
Thanks.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by slopeshoulder

As soon as I sell something, I'll be getting an amp.
Are there any concerns about class D amps (Markbass, TC, TEC, more all the time: SWR)? Or is this the new standard?
Or is a transformer based amp (e.g. Aguilar AG-500SC) a better choice if I don't mind lifting 20 pounds?
Thanks.

Every Class D amp I've seen has a transformer in it.

I'd highly recommend that you ignore the stuff you don't understand and just buy whatever you like the sound of.

[Bijoux]

I have an EA Micro, and I had an Eden WTX260.They are absolutely fantastic for the weight. But I am not crazy about their sound.
I haven't tried the newer ones by GK, and SWR. But I would imagine sound could be an issue...
For now I'll keep taking my SVT4PRO to gigs while I have the energy! lol
Maybe 10 years from now I'll revisit class D amps, and by then hopefully they will sound like my beloved SVT!!! :-)

[Brubass]

Originally Posted by Bijoux

I have an EA Micro, and I had an Eden WTX260.They are absolutely fantastic for the weight. But I am not crazy about their sound.
I haven't tried the newer ones by GK, and SWR. But I would imagine sound could be an issue...
For now I'll keep taking my SVT4PRO to gigs while I have the energy! lol
Maybe 10 years from now I'll revisit class D amps, and by then hopefully they will sound like my beloved SVT!!! :-)

I'm no expert, but from what I've read on TB before, I didn't think the power amp topology affected the tone sound much - I think it's really in the preamp where the tone gets made. My GK MB2-500 sounds very much like other GKs (growly) through it's preamp, but when I bypass it with my VT Deluxe, I get a very SVT-sounding tone.

[craig.p]

I could be wrong but I think this new stuff will be the new standard in a couple of years, if not sooner. There are too many big names with good reputations who've already jumped into the pool to believe otherwise. Look, you can even buy board-level Class-D amps (40 or so watts RMS) retail, for not too much money; that alone says Class D is pretty much a done deal.

A side note: My gut tells me that by 2013 or so, the prices on quality lightweights will be so low that fixing them when they go bad won't make economic sense. Who knows, manufacturers might even adopt from the automotive industry the concept of a core charge, where the water pump in your Chevy goes bad and you get $10 back on the purchase of a rebuilt one. Trade in a burned-out IPR1600 for a new one and get $75 off. Something like that. Cheaper than a repair and you automatically get any design upgrades when you get your hands on the rebuilt one. (Just thinking out loud.)

There'll always be the legacy stuff for those willing to pony up the money, just as there's still plenty of tube stuff around in these days of transistors.

[gastric]

The only problem with Class D is it will make you wonder why the hell all your OTHER gear is so damn heavy in comparison. The Peavey IPR weighs a mere 7lbs. That's lighter than nearly ALL of my other gear, including the empty case it's mounted in.

[PunkSweeper]

Solid State Topology is indeed almost entirely negligible for tone, but any crappy SS amp will sound crappy...or great. The beauty of tone is it's subjective.

[Chowowbus]

Craig.P

That is one hell of a good idea. I hope amp makers see this.
Shipping class D is also cheap compared to heavy amps.
There are just so many advantages and really,,,there is a whole new generation of future class Ds coming up. They will only get better..

[waveman]

Class D amps are great. You just have to find the one you like just like anything else. For me, it was Markbass. I had a Genz Benz Shuttle, wasn't my thing. Would like to try the Carvin and GK offerings someday, but I am flush with equipment for now, and happy with my sound.

Tube aficionado's might disagree, but I love just toting a 2x10 + class D everywhere vs a fridge and oven.

[Jimmy Stump]

Originally Posted by waveman

Tube aficionado's might disagree, but I love just toting a 2x10 + class D everywhere vs a fridge and oven.

My back says +1

[Windreaper]

Since distortion, bandwidth and EMI issues can nowadays be mitigated through clever design (although, as far as I know, it's a b*tch to design a good output filter and feedback network, not to mention gating...), there's nothing to be concerned of (as long as you get a well-designed amp with a good track record for reliability as with linear SS amps). The only negative side I can think of is that, due to fast switching speeds required, manufacturers need to use surface-mount components in a compact board layout. Negative in the sense that you need to source exactly the same parts as in the original circuit if you need to do repairs, not to mention the added difficulty of repairing a densely packed SMD design. Actually, better get the extended warranty for your amp .

[Bijoux]

Originally Posted by waveman

, but I love just toting a 2x10 + class D everywhere vs a fridge and oven.

no doubt!
.. but I must say when I bring my SVT 4 PRO with two cabs, there is a huge difference. And when guys in the band that never say anything about anything, turn to me and say: "man, you sound great today! your sound is just great! are you doing anything different?" then I know for sure.

[waveman]

Originally Posted by Bijoux

no doubt!
.. but I must say when I bring my SVT 4 PRO with two cabs, there is a huge difference. And when guys in the band that never say anything about anything, turn to me and say: "man, you sound great today! your sound is just great! are you doing anything different?" then I know for sure.

We don't play anywhere to get that loud. We'd get kicked out of every bar in town

Now my 2x10 cab is 700W (1400peak) of goodness, and the MB is 500W of goodness too I usually get told I'm too loud at @1/4 volume.

But I know what you are saying, there is a certain sound that SVT4 Pro + Fridge brings, but I could never turn it up loud enough to get there in most of the venues I play.

[Bijoux]

I understand, but I don't play very loud either. In fact we hardly use monitors. We try to keep stage volume low so we can all hear each other well. besides most of the guys I play with come from a jazz background, playing mostly acoustic.
I just feel that my overall sound has a different quality that I much appreciate when I bring the big guns.
As a matter of fact I like when my sound is warm and sort of fills the stage in a supportive manner, but once it starts to get too loud I personally think that it looses a lot of that initial warmth. And at that point, for me, it doens't matter what I am playing through. because everything just sounds loud and quality, warmth, clarity, and everything else is gone anyways...

[Thumpdog]

Class "D" power and neo cabs has made music fun again. Never made enough dough to hire roadies which put a real damper on my fun meter packing out 2 refrigerators and a boat anchor at the end of each night.

[MIJ-VI]

Please do an amps forum search via the term 'protection mode', do some reading, and then draw your own conclusions vis a vis the types of venues you gig at.

[Windreaper]

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

Please do an amps forum search via the term 'protection mode', do some reading, and then draw your own conclusions vis a vis the types of venues you gig at.

Are you referring to switching-mode power supplies generally having more sophisticated protection schemes that react quicker to undervoltage/drop-outs ? If you're having serious enough power problems to cause a SMPS supply to go into protection mode, I wouldn't plug anything of value to the circuit (even if your lead sled doesn't react to the condition doesn't mean it's safe, mind you I still gig with lead sleds).

[BurningSkies]

Can I be the first in this thread to point out that one of the amps that people like to consider "Class D", the Markbass LMII or LMIII is, in fact. CLASS A/B

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by Windreaper

Are you referring to switching-mode power supplies generally having more sophisticated protection schemes that react quicker to undervoltage/drop-outs ? If you're having serious enough power problems to cause a SMPS supply to go into protection mode, I wouldn't plug anything of value to the circuit (even if your lead sled doesn't react to the condition doesn't mean it's safe, mind you I still gig with lead sleds).

Absolutely. The ability to protect more thoroughly has improved the reliability of these amps (where the manufacturer has chosento do so) and in some cases all ow the manufacturer to offer longer warranties.

[Windreaper]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Absolutely. The ability to protect more thoroughly has improved the reliability of these amps (where the manufacturer has chosento do so) and in some cases all ow the manufacturer to offer longer warranties.

Speaking of reliability, in your experience, what is the most common reason SMPS/Class D fail? The usual blown output/psu trannies or something more exotic like shoot-through currents frying MOSFETs (due to bad component tolerances etc). It'd be kind of interesting to know how much safety margin there is (at the expense of distortion, unless I'm missing something) but I suppose you'd have to kill me .