Any point to buying watts I don't need?

[smgleitch]

Sorry to double post this question, already posted in the mesa boogie club thread, but got no response there. I do hate asking these questions, but after looking at as much of the archives as I have I feel it just needs to be asked. I am looking to buy a m-pulse 360 head. Now to be honest I have never played through mesa boogie stuff, only know it to be good by reputation and what I have read here. It will be replacing a carvin bx-500. It dosnt have the same power rating, the carvin is 500 watts at 4 ohms and the 360 is 360 watts at 4 ohms, but I never really turn the carvin up past 2 or 3 on the master and have felt for a while like there might be more power there than I need right now. Although right now I am not playing out I am starting to think that even when I do start playing out again that I will have no need for a 500 watt amp. It seems to me that this is a lot of power, and if I am ever in a need for more I could just go through the FOH system. I am assuming that 360 watts to a 410 should be sufficient for stage volume in most all gigs. I am playing it through a Epifani UL410 4 ohm cab rated at 1000 watts. Love this cab and no interest in changing this out. Just not 100% in love with the head right now so was looking and found what looks like a good deal on the mesa boogie head.

So the question is 360 watts to little of power for my cab. The cab seems to be very efficient, but can you under power it. This is a concept I am not sure I still understand. can you simply put to to little to a cab and have it sound bad. I am looking at this right now as if I am only turning my present amp up to 1 or 2 on the master and getting levels good enough to practice at home, and shake most of the stuff on the walls, then it is like I am using only 100 watts of my amp. Not sure if this theory is correct but if it is then It shouldn't matter how many watts my amp has, but more how many of them I am giving to my cab. Not sure if I am asking this the right way, but I hope you get what I am asking. I think I am looking at it like this.

If it is between this and the m-pulse 600, 600 watts vs 360 watts, is there any point if I am not ever going to push the 600 past the upper limit of the 360. Would both of those amps sound the same through the same cab only the one has the ability to get louder, or are there other sonic factors to take into consideration.

Thanks for your help.

[MuzikMan]

No. Be prepared for an onslaught of heated conversation. This topic is very old and well documented here at talkbass.com

[MuzikMan]

Under Powering My Cab?
Not enough amp?
WILL MY CAB BE UNDER POWERED?
overpower or underpower, a hypothetical..
Am I underpowereded?
effect of underpowering a cab?

That should get you started!

[smgleitch]

Thank you. Must have been searching wrong.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by smgleitch

Sorry to double post this question, already posted in the mesa boogie club thread, but got no response there. I do hate asking these questions, but after looking at as much of the archives as I have I feel it just needs to be asked. I am looking to buy a m-pulse 360 head. Now to be honest I have never played through mesa boogie stuff, only know it to be good by reputation and what I have read here. It will be replacing a carvin bx-500. It dosnt have the same power rating, the carvin is 500 watts at 4 ohms and the 360 is 360 watts at 4 ohms, but I never really turn the carvin up past 2 or 3 on the master and have felt for a while like there might be more power there than I need right now. Although right now I am not playing out I am starting to think that even when I do start playing out again that I will have no need for a 500 watt amp. It seems to me that this is a lot of power, and if I am ever in a need for more I could just go through the FOH system. I am assuming that 360 watts to a 410 should be sufficient for stage volume in most all gigs. I am playing it through a Epifani UL410 4 ohm cab rated at 1000 watts. Love this cab and no interest in changing this out. Just not 100% in love with the head right now so was looking and found what looks like a good deal on the mesa boogie head.

So the question is 360 watts to little of power for my cab. The cab seems to be very efficient, but can you under power it. This is a concept I am not sure I still understand. can you simply put to to little to a cab and have it sound bad. I am looking at this right now as if I am only turning my present amp up to 1 or 2 on the master and getting levels good enough to practice at home, and shake most of the stuff on the walls, then it is like I am using only 100 watts of my amp. Not sure if this theory is correct but if it is then It shouldn't matter how many watts my amp has, but more how many of them I am giving to my cab. Not sure if I am asking this the right way, but I hope you get what I am asking. I think I am looking at it like this. If it is between this and the m-pulse 600, 600 watts vs 360 watts, is there any point if I am not ever going to push the 600 past the upper limit of the 360. Would both of those amps sound the same through the same cab only the one has the ability to get louder, or are there other sonic factors to take into consideration.

Thanks for your help.

Underpowering is pure myth, there is probably a load of discussions if you search.
The myth deals with amp clipping causing crossover components to feed a larger proportion of the amps output to the tweeter thus endangering it if it has one.
Of course anybody with the slightest taste and discernment
would have long since turned down the treble and or the tweeter to a sensible level.
As long as the cabinet has good efficiency IE its not like those that seem to need a 1000 watts to make what you might expect from 100 watts.
Power Rating on speakers is a thermal rating, it has absolutely nothing to do with what the cab sounds like running at that power.
All bass cabs are displacement limited by X-Max at vlf well before their thermal ratings are reached.
In my experience they all go Farty fart fart! at about half the thermal rating with a five string tuned to B even through a great compressor.
I have a 200 watt tube bass amp and a 1500 watt rated cab.
It says its 106dB 1 watt 1 Metre but then it has eight close coupled efficient ten inch drivers.
It appears to me that more speakers is an old not very high tech solution but it works better than almost everything else
especially if the available watts are a fixed value.
Other than that just clap this on the front of your Fearful 1 x 12" + 6.

Then you will only need ten watts mate.

[Arjank]

I'll be very short on this one.
Underpowering is not a problem unless you drive your amplifier into clipping territory else you might fry the tweeter(if your cab has one)

[smgleitch]

Once again thanks for all the help. I have been reading on the links posted above and doing some more research into this on the web.

I never really considered there being a problem with under powering causing problems with damaging the speakers or amp. Was really more interested in the idea that maybe the speakers need that extra wattage to get their "true" sound if there is such a thing. Just wondering if I am missing out on something that is in those speakers that I cannot hear because I am not turning it up enough. Kind of like a good SVT with an 810 cab sounds best when brought to higher volume, or so I am told. I know in that situation it is more the tubes in the amp than the speakers, but just wanted to know more about the relationship between amp and cab in relationship of watts, volume and tone.

Think of it more like this. Am I wasting a perfectly good set of speakers by not pushing them with enough power. Do they sound different as you apply more power to them, or does the volume just increase.

[tdub0199]

NO..... It's a Myth!!!!!!

[capnjim]

You could buy it, and sell off the extra watts.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by smgleitch

..... It dosnt have the same power rating, the carvin is 500 watts at 4 ohms and the 360 is 360 watts at 4 ohms, but I never really turn the carvin up past 2 or 3 on the master and have felt for a while like there might be more power there than I need right now......


...... I am looking at this right now as if I am only turning my present amp up to 1 or 2 on the master and getting levels good enough to practice at home, and shake most of the stuff on the walls, then it is like I am using only 100 watts of my amp. Not sure if this theory is correct.......

The volume knobs on an amp are not linear - meaning that being on #2 out of 10 does NOT mean you are only getting 1/5 the power.

Depending on many factors (input gain, EQ'ing, etc.) MANY amps achieve their full output at around the noon position.

Unless you are hooked up to test equipment, there is no way of knowing how much power you are delivering to your cab while the "knob is on 2 or 3"

[prd004]

The advantage to having more watts is if you need them down the road, you have them. If not you're looking to buy another amp again.

But Mesa's tend to be conservative on their power ratings.

[jgroh]

Whats the best underpowered cab for metal??


Ah, c'mon, thats funny right thar!