Any tips for choosing an extension cab?

[Noose]

I read through the FAQ thread and saw the massive thread regarding phasing issues. I was able to understand just enough to get me paranoid about what extension cabinet to look for.

I currently have a GK SBX + 410. It's an 800 watt sealed cabinet that I picked up used. It gets loud enough, but it's an eight ohm cab and my head is better suited for as low as 2 ohms. Long story short I want a second cab to get a lower impedance load. Part of the problem is money of course, but an even bigger problem is finding another SBX+ 410.

So I think I am gonna have to do some brand and/or configuration mismatching. I know this isn't necessarily ideal, but my choices are limited.

With that in mind, what are some general guidelines I should think about when searching for a suitable extension cabinet?

For example, when choosing an extension cab be careful that the total impedance of the extension and the other cabinet doesn't fall below what your amp head is designed to handle. I'm looking for some general guidelines such as this.

Thanks in advance. I'm sure these things have been discussed a lot on here, but a lot of the advice gets so specific that it's tough to understand and apply to my specific situations. Someday I will know it all too, but for now I gotta ask questions to more experienced folks.

[Selta]

Don't just get another cab to get the load lower... the additional wattage won't even mean a thing. You won't notice. If you're loud enough as-is, why change anything?
Ideally, you'd have a 2nd matching cab to your current one, if you really "need" another cab.

And yes, this is discussed just about daily here...

[Noose]

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

Don't just get another cab to get the load lower... the additional wattage won't even mean a thing. You won't notice.
Ideally, you'd have a 2nd matching cab to your current one.

And yes, this is discussed just about daily here...

Like I said in my post, I know that the ideal situation is to get a matching cab, but that isn't an option.

My head is rated for 600 watts at 2 ohms. 450 at 4 ohms and I think around 175 at 8 ohms. So what you are telling me is that more than doubling my amps wattage won't make a difference? At the very least it will help me not have to push it as hard. Plus the additional speaker area will give me more volume if I choose it right which will give me more wiggle room when I need it.

I'm not asking if I should get another cab and I didn't ask if this subject was discussed daily or not. If you bothered to read the original post you would know that. If my asking a question annoys you, save yourself some time and don't respond. There are plenty of people who are glad to offer advice even to stupid questions that have been asked.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Noose

Like I said in my post, I know that the ideal situation is to get a matching cab, but that isn't an option.

My head is rated for 600 watts at 2 ohms. 450 at 4 ohms and I think around 175 at 8 ohms. So what you are telling me is that more than doubling my amps wattage won't make a difference? At the very least it will help me not have to push it as hard. Plus the additional speaker area will give me more volume if I choose it right which will give me more wiggle room when I need it.

I'm not asking if I should get another cab and I didn't ask if this subject was discussed daily or not. If you bothered to read the original post you would know that. If my asking a question annoys you, save yourself some time and don't respond. There are plenty of people who are glad to offer advice even to stupid questions that have been asked.

Well, if you know it all already, and have read the FAQ, there's not much more to add really... don't mix driver size, ideal situation is to get the identical cab, and no, doubling wattage won't buy you a noticeable difference in volume (in theory, you might gain 3dB. In practice, you get less). In order to even think about doubling volume, you need to increase your wattage ten fold, so you'd need to go to at least 1750 watts (again, covered in the FAQ).

Otherwise, the best thing I can tell you is to take your rig to a store, and try it with more cabs, and find one you like. You might somehow find that magical 410 + 115 setup that doesn't suck and you love and have to have. You might find a 210 to go with your 410. We're not you and can't tell you what you like .
Here's an SBX 410 that recently ended on eBay with apparently no buyer... might be worth contacting the seller to see if they still have it:
Gallien Krueger 410SBX plus | eBay

[Calaverasgrande]

get the cab that can fit in your car, and that you can manage by yourself in terms of loading. Seriously. So many folks fail to consider this.
BTW, to keep up my contrarian reputation I will have to say that some of the best sounding bass tones I have heard came from guys running 2x10 with 2x12 cabs.
Yeah, the prevailing wisdom is that it cant possibly sound good and if it does its a fluke. But hey, several different guys I have seen rock varying brands of this and it seems to work well.

[Noose]

Thanks. Again, I'm not worried about volume. I don't want to have to push my amp quite as hard as i do with the 8 ohm load I have used an extension cab with it before and the difference was huge. Unfortunately the guy wasn't willing to part with that particular cabinet at a price I liked so that was that.

So let's pretend that there is only one of my cabinets left on earth and I am being forced by law to buy an extension cab.

[Noose]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

get the cab that can fit in your car, and that you can manage by yourself in terms of loading. Seriously. So many folks fail to consider this.
BTW, to keep up my contrarian reputation I will have to say that some of the best sounding bass tones I have heard came from guys running 2x10 with 2x12 cabs.
Yeah, the prevailing wisdom is that it cant possibly sound good and if it does its a fluke. But hey, several different guys I have seen rock varying brands of this and it seems to work well.

Hmm. Ok. Good enough. So it seems that mixing different speaker sizes is one of those things that could work or could suck and the only way to be certain is to actually try em. Cool. Thanks.

Right now I'm leaning toward trying to find another 410

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Noose

Thanks. Again, I'm not worried about volume. I don't want to have to push my amp quite as hard as i do with the 8 ohm load I have used an extension cab with it before and the difference was huge. Unfortunately the guy wasn't willing to part with that particular cabinet at a price I liked so that was that.

So let's pretend that there is only one of my cabinets left on earth and I am being forced by law to buy an extension cab.

the difference was huge because of the extension cab, not the extra wattage. doubling your wattage gives you a tiny little volume bump. doubling your speakers is what gives you the big boost.

so here's your problem...a second non matching cab could work, but there's no way of knowing unless you try it out with your cab. the results can be pretty unpredictable. i'd try to get them close, but even cabs that sound close can work against each other.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

Yeah, the prevailing wisdom is that it cant possibly sound good and if it does its a fluke. But hey, several different guys I have seen rock varying brands of this and it seems to work well.

This is the usual parody of the "prevailing wisdom".

You can get more volume and generally some more low-end extension by adding almost any cab, and you get some of the speakers nearer your ears assuming you stack them -- i.e. it will generally sound better than the original cab alone. However, there is a high risk of producing phasing problems with peaks and troughs in the sound field at various frequencies, so that some spots on stage and in the audience will sound boomy, others dead. You generally won't notice this if you just stand right in front of the stack when you're testing it; you need a long enough cable so you can walk to and fro across the field while you play. You may get lucky and find two cabs that play well together, but the majority won't. Using a second identical cab always sounds better, and they will be in phase.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Noose

My head is rated for 600 watts at 2 ohms. 450 at 4 ohms and I think around 175 at 8 ohms. So what you are telling me is that more than doubling my amps wattage won't make a difference?

in order for you to get twice the volume you would need to boost your wattage by ten times. You will hardly notice double if at all.

[Calaverasgrande]

Well he wouldn't be just doubling watts. increasing acoustic devices (speakers) as well. So it should be a noticeable difference. IME my head sitting on 1 x15 is able to cut it with a drummer. But with a guitarist or two I need the 2x15.

[bdfirelife]

what about selling the cab you have and getting 2 similar matching cabs maybe the gk neo 410s. May not be your ideal situation but might work out the best. IMO

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Noose

Thanks. Again, I'm not worried about volume. I don't want to have to push my amp quite as hard as i do with the 8 ohm load

You'll push it harder with a 2 ohm load. There's no such thing as a free lunch, the additional power is obtained at the cost of more heat, which lowers component life and reliability.

have used an extension cab with it before and the difference was huge.

That had very little to do with power, very much to do with the increased sensitivity that results when you use a second cab.

[dukeorock]

I'm not an electronics person, but I have been playing for a very long time and I know what I hear. The difference between one 410 and 2 410's is pretty much always a very huge difference...my favorite rigs have always sounded best at 2 ohms...I understand the heat and shortened lifespan, trust me...but I really don't care...it sounds better to me.

And for the most part, all this mismatched 'phase' talk has some merit, but it's a bit overstated...I don't like to run 10's with 15's...the 10's move quicker than the 15's, which is where all the 'phase' talk comes in...the time alignment bugs me a bit, so I just use a bunch of 10's...for the past few years I either ran eight or sixteen 10's, depending on the venue size...overkill? Oh yeah! Of course it is, but it sounds really great, even at lower volume, just moving all that air , so to me it's well worth it.

Also, switching from 8 to 4 ohms should be a very big difference, regardless of what anyone says here...sorry, fellas! Personally, if I were in the OP's situation, I'd ditch the existing cab and get a 4ohm 410...then if you still want more juice, get a matching 4 ohm cab...stacking two 410's has a bunch of advantages...getting the mids and highs up closer to ear level...it just sounds better.

I do envy the players who can be happy with a single 10 or 12, but I can't enjoy myself unless some air gets moved around, but that's me

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

Well he wouldn't be just doubling watts. increasing acoustic devices (speakers) as well. So it should be a noticeable difference.

Agreed but I was just answering the quoted question. So many of us think that getting the maximum out of our amplifiers is worth some expense. In reality that wattage increase won't garner anything particularly useful.

[Noose]

It really is amazing sometimes how frustrating it is to get people who are clearly knowledgable about this stuff to answer the actual question you ask.

Please don't take this the wrong way. You guys seem intelligent and I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts. And this doesnt apply to everyone who has posted on here. But...

I never asked "why" or "if" an extension cab will sound better. I already said that I know an identical cab is most likely the best option. I don't know why you guys insist on debating that doubling the wattage and reducing the ohm load and increasing speaker area will make my rig louder, which means I can back off the volume knob and not work my amp as hard. I know for a fact that it will. Not pushing the amp as hard gives me more room to adjust the tone the way I want and still sit well in the mix. As for "why" it will, I don't care. That's for another thread. I just know that it does, because like I said earlier in this thread, I've already tried it.

So with all due respect, please try to focus on what I actually asked which is: what are general guidelines one should consider when looking for a suitable extension cab when an identical cabinet isn't available.

[Selta]

We've answered that. You're going to have to go out and try them.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by Noose

It really is amazing sometimes how frustrating it is to get people who are clearly knowledgable about this stuff to answer the actual question you ask.

Please don't take this the wrong way. You guys seem intelligent and I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts. And this doesnt apply to everyone who has posted on here. But...

I never asked "why" or "if" an extension cab will sound better. I already said that I know an identical cab is most likely the best option. I don't know why you guys insist on debating that doubling the wattage and reducing the ohm load and increasing speaker area will make my rig louder, which means I can back off the volume knob and not work my amp as hard. I know for a fact that it will. Not pushing the amp as hard gives me more room to adjust the tone the way I want and still sit well in the mix. As for "why" it will, I don't care. That's for another thread. I just know that it does, because like I said earlier in this thread, I've already tried it.

So with all due respect, please try to focus on what I actually asked which is: what are general guidelines one should consider when looking for a suitable extension cab when an identical cabinet isn't available.

Wow...unsub'd

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by Noose

It really is amazing sometimes how frustrating it is

... to hear someone moan when they're not being told exactly what they want to hear.

You've been given the answer at least three times. There are no general guidelines if you can't or won't follow the "golden rule" and match your cabinet. This time with feeling: You ... have ... to ... try ... them.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Noose

Like I said in my post, I know that the ideal situation is to get a matching cab, but that isn't an option.

My head is rated for 600 watts at 2 ohms. 450 at 4 ohms and I think around 175 at 8 ohms. So what you are telling me is that more than doubling my amps wattage won't make a difference? At the very least it will help me not have to push it as hard. Plus the additional speaker area will give me more volume if I choose it right which will give me more wiggle room when I need it.

I'm not asking if I should get another cab and I didn't ask if this subject was discussed daily or not. If you bothered to read the original post you would know that. If my asking a question annoys you, save yourself some time and don't respond. There are plenty of people who are glad to offer advice even to stupid questions that have been asked.

Knowing full well that I'm not going to say what you want to hear, I'll say it anyway, being slightly masochistic. You should get another of the same cab you already have. It's never not an option. Look around. Look under a few things. You'll find one. It's possible that a 410 of another brand would work, but you're better off with the same cab.

Also, the increase in wattage won't be the main source of your hoped-for volume increase - it'll be the additional speakers. The jump from 8 ohms to 4 ohms typically produces a barely perceptible increase in volume, all other things being equal.

This subject is discussed daily around here.