Anyone else NOT like the sound of vertical stacked 2x10 cabs?

Jarrett · #1 08-06-2011, 04:55 PM

I know that is very popular here on Talkbass, to get a pair of 2x10 cabs and stack them vertically so they are the height of an 8x10. I've tried this with a few different cabs and I just don't dig it.

On the ground, side by side, they sound great. Full and punchy, but as soon as I stack them it's like they lose that full low end and gain a bit of mids that I can't fix with the EQ. Soon as I put them back on the ground (and reset the EQ) it sounds great again.

Anyone else experience this?

Mr. Foxen · #2 08-06-2011, 04:58 PM

That just means you don't like the sound of your cabs. Stacking vertically just means you can hear the sound of your cabs. The mids are still there in front of the speakers, just not up above, where your ears are.

rpsands · #3 08-06-2011, 04:58 PM

It's relative. You're hearing more mids and it makes the lows seem quieter.

Something worth noting is that if you ducked your head down to the level of your audience (directly in line with the traditionally stacked 2x10's) you would almost surely hear the same thing you hear with them up by your ears.

Bottom line, what you're hearing is what your cabs actually sound like head-on, almost for sure.

* What Foxen said. If you mic your cabs, they'll probably sound like this too.

I am pretty convinced after years of playing out that people really like the sound of 4x10s off-axis. This is because what people really want in mids ranges from mids equal to the bass, or scooped. Almost no one really wants the rising midrange of a traditional 4x10 (there are a few guys out there). What they like is that once you stand off-axis to it, the mids drop a LOT - down to closer to parity with the lower end.

Jarrett · #4 08-06-2011, 04:59 PM

I don't like the sound of every 2x10 cab I've ever stacked? Interesting.

rpsands · #5 08-06-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrett

I don't like the sound of every 2x10 cab I've ever stacked? Interesting.

Mic them with a nice mic and a flat recording interface and see.

My guess is that this is very likely.

I can't think of any 2x10 other than Acme that doesn't have a load of gank in the mids when you put your head in line with it.

* EA used to make a 3-way 2x10 also. Pretty dark sounding cab, IIRC>

BurningSkies · #6 08-06-2011, 05:04 PM

Yep. It's not magic...the tone of the cab doesn't change if it's on the floor vs. it being on another cab. It's just closer to your ears. Because 10's have poor mid-dispersion off axis anyway, when its on the floor and you're hearing it from above, you don't hear the mids nearly as well as the lows.

**B-string** · #7 08-06-2011, 05:05 PM

You could like the bass extention from coupling to the floor when side by side. Maybe 10's are not your thing?

lokikallas · #8 08-06-2011, 05:06 PM

i would imagine there might be a little bit of bass bump from coupling both cabs to the floor as well.

Epidrake · #9 08-06-2011, 05:10 PM

I agree. Bass coupling to the floor is definitely a factor. You do get more bass that way.

silky smoove · #10 08-06-2011, 05:15 PM

Only relative to raising your cab more than a quarter wavelength. Floor coupling inside of a quarter wavelength is a misnomer to my understanding.

EricssonB · #11 08-06-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

You could like the bass extention from coupling to the floor when side by side. Maybe 10's are not your thing?

Word on that. I've only played from (well, owned, I guess) a 115, Fender Bassman 200 and I will probably stick with 15" speakers. Pushing that much air makes a lovely field of dispersion. Someone ought make a 415. Do they? Shoot. Time to look some up.

30.87hertz · #12 08-06-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrett

On the ground, side by side, they sound great. Full and punchy, but as soon as I stack them it's like they lose that full low end and gain a bit of mids that I can't fix with the EQ. Soon as I put them back on the ground (and reset the EQ) it sounds great again.

Anyone else experience this?

Yes this is the expected change in frequency response going from quarter-space to half-space (if up against a wall) or from half-space to full space. And as already mentioned, off axis to on axis plays a role in masking the lows.

rpsands · #13 08-06-2011, 05:18 PM

I can't remember the exact numbers but an extra 10" and 20" of elevation of the top two speakers vs. a traditional 4x10 stack (quad) should not make much of a sacrifice at all.

It's not coupling they're giving up, but the frequency where they get the bump from being in half-space with the floor.

tekdiver500ft · #14 08-06-2011, 05:21 PM

Try this:
Set your cabs up like a 4x10, then sit on the floor about 8 feet in front of them and play. If you like the sound (you won't), then run them like that. Otherwise, you simply don't like the EQ you are using with those cabs, or you don't like the cabs themselves. In order to properly EQ your cabs, you need to be inline with the center of the cab, and in the audience position. This is the only way you'll correctly hear what they sound like.

scottfeldstein · #15 08-06-2011, 05:22 PM

I've found that I can't get both the volume and the tone I want out of two 2x10 cabs. I'm switching to two 2x12s, or one 2x12 and a 15. Maybe I won't have to drop the lows so far in order to get the volume I'm looking for.

KJung · #16 08-06-2011, 05:28 PM

I dislike having those mids blaring in my ear also. I actually find that a typical 410 sounds closer nearfield to what the rig sounds like out in the room, since it is the mids and treble that tend to get absorbed by the crowd.

I find that I can crank the mids and treble a bit to sound good in the room, which would sound a bit unbalanced with a 10 and or tweeter in my ear on stage.

Pure personal taste though. Either way will get you where you need to go.

+1 though. You don't really 'lose any low end' by stacking vertically, you just get the directional mids closer to your ear, for better or worse.

Mr. Foxen · #17 08-06-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrett

I don't like the sound of every 2x10 cab I've ever stacked? Interesting.

Maybe it is the soun of your amp/bass/playing you don't like. Not uncommon, see for sale section.

groooooove · #18 08-06-2011, 05:31 PM

yeah, ive done this before. it certainly is not that beefy sounding..

rodl2005 · #19 08-06-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricssonB

Word on that. I've only played from (well, owned, I guess) a 115, Fender Bassman 200 and I will probably stick with 15" speakers. Pushing that much air makes a lovely field of dispersion. Someone ought make a 415. Do they? Shoot. Time to look some up.

Marshall Lemmy rig make a 412 & 415 :-)

JGR · #20 08-06-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Maybe it is the soun of your amp/bass/playing you don't like. Not uncommon, see for sale section.

I definitely don't like the sound of my playing, though my basses and cabs sound great!

. I may not have chops, but I got tone!