Anyone know who makes the 12" Powerhouse Neo speakers that Mesa uses?

[nosajwp]

Does Mesa make them or someone else? Ideally, I want to learn the manufacturer and model, because I would like to see a response curve for these speakers.

[nosajwp]

Anyone know?

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by nosajwp

Does Mesa make them or someone else? Ideally, I want to learn the manufacturer and model, because I would like to see a response curve for these speakers.

Knowing the brand and model won't help you unless you know for sure that they use a stock driver and not a modified OEM version (which they most likely do).

[Crabby]

I can tell you that they are made by Eminence and that there are at least two different versions. There is the earlier version with the Eminence crown logo in the middle and then there was a later version with just a small Eminence name sticker on the side. The later version is much much lighter and handles more power then the the earlier version. Hope that helps.

[seamonkey]

Oh just the drivers alone?
You can measure it if Mesa will not tell you
Dayton Audio WT3P WT3 Bundled with Precision Scale

Not sure what that will get you though.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Oh just the drivers alone?
You can measure it if Mesa will not tell you
Dayton Audio WT3P WT3 Bundled with Precision Scale

Not sure what that will get you though.

It gives T/S specs, which only predict response below 200 Hz or so. Only a measured SPL chart will give midrange response. You'll have better luck finding Jimmy Hoffa.

[nosajwp]

Ok, perhaps I should have asked the question a little differently. Has anyone replaced their 12" Powerhouse neo drivers with other aftermarket drivers and had good results? If so, what did you go with, and what was the difference compared to the stock drivers?

[rpsands]

Why on earth would you buy a thousand dollar cab and then replace the drivers?

[RickenBoogie]

Anything other than the stock drivers will be less than ideal. The cabs and drivers were designed as a unit, and there is no "better" replacement.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Anything other than the stock drivers will be less than ideal. The cabs and drivers were designed as a unit, and there is no "better" replacement.

Not necessarily. The percentage of commercial cabs that precisely designed is small. But it remains that you can't know how a replacement driver will compare to the original without having both the specs and the SPL chart of the original.

[will33]

Originally Posted by Crabby

I can tell you that they are made by Eminence and that there are at least two different versions. There is the earlier version with the Eminence crown logo in the middle and then there was a later version with just a small Eminence name sticker on the side. The later version is much much lighter and handles more power then the the earlier version. Hope that helps.

Eminence is the manufacturer yes but in the case of oem, mesa sends eminence a design and says " make me 500 of these". The design belongs to mesa, they won't reveal it and eminence isn't allowed to either, it's a patent.

Post the measurements of your cabs interior and it's ports as well as how powerful an amp you're using with it and folks will be able to help find suitable replacements.

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Not necessarily. The percentage of commercial cabs that precisely designed is small. But it remains that you can't know how a replacement driver will compare to the original without having both the specs and the SPL chart of the original.

I agree. It's quite possible if you dropped a couple high end drivers in there it'd work great, but you don't know.

By the same token, you will reduce the cabinet's value guaranteed.

It's almost always cheaper to sell your commercial cab and then build what you want or have what you want built if you want to use superior stock drivers (E.g. Kappalites).

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by will33

Eminence is the manufacturer yes but in the case of oem, mesa sends eminence a design and says " make me 500 of these". .

It works the other way around. Eminence makes up samples and sends them to the manufacturer to try. They're almost always cobbled up from existing parts. If a manufacturer chooses a sample, and buys enough of them, he can have an exclusive on it. But you can make up literally a hundred different versions with specs so close to each other than you can barely measure the difference. BTW, when Eminence brings out a new line they test a few dozen different versions, and the one they think is the best/most versatile of the lot is what gets sold as the stock driver.

[will33]

Some companies like Genz for example do.....or at least claim to...have their own driver designs. I assume they'd start with a common platform like a deltaliteII or whatever and tweak from there. You'd have to change enough stuff/make it enough different to get it patented as it's own design wouldn't you? Don't know, I've never patented anything.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by will33

Some companies like Genz for example do.....or at least claim to...have their own driver designs. I assume they'd start with a common platform like a deltaliteII or whatever and tweak from there. You'd have to change enough stuff/make it enough different to get it patented as it's own design wouldn't you? Don't know, I've never patented anything.

Eminence holds all the patents, that's something they don't relinquish. The only companies that might have designs truly their own are those that make their own drivers, like Peavey and G-K.

[MNAirHead]

I've bought some of these prototypes Bill comments on... they are not off the shelf.. look like it, just don't act that way.

[agedhorse]

It's not patents that any of this revolves around, it's propriatary design information based at least in our case on a fair amount of our own R&D that we develop in conjunction with the capabilities of the vendor. It involves the management of a whole lot of variables in order to create a driver that meets our target goals, and while TS parameters are one aspect, the voicing of a driver, operational reliability and manufacturability are an entirely different set of variables that are not often discussed. Combined, it's a wide palette with which we can pain our driver picture with.

Some companies (like us) have real engineers that work on developing an appropriate set of parameters with the vendors, and other companies that just play around with samples until the find something they can live with.

[Crabby]

I was able to compare an older Mesa PH412 cab side by side with a newer one. The older one with the heavier drivers (cab rated at 1000 watts) had a warmer tone while the newer cab (rated at 1200 watts) had a much punchier, tighter sound. The difference was clearly noticeable. I later checked out the driver in my Mesa Scout cab and its one of the older designed drivers.

[77PBass]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Eminence holds all the patents, that's something they don't relinquish. The only companies that might have designs truly their own are those that make their own drivers, like Peavey and G-K.

And then there are those companies with no clue about speaker design who scribble their name on the cone dust cover and call the speaker "custom designed."

[nosajwp]

I was just wondering if anyone might have tried some Deltalite II's or something similar in a PH 112, 212, or 412 and how it turned out. Not saying that I'm going to do this myself...more of just a what-if type of question.