Ashdown ABM500 vs Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0

LarryR · #1 12-11-2010, 09:25 AM

Anyone A/B'd them? Opinions?
I'm thinking of changing from my ABM to a lighter head, but, wonder if I'll miss the fat warmth the ABM provides. ABM has a pretty massive transformer for an SS head. Can class D powre really keep up?

**Ronny49** · #2 12-11-2010, 10:57 AM

You WILL miss that fat tone! Genz is a good amp for jazz, pop rock and of similar... IMO, but Ashdown is the only one that even comes close to the bottom end of a tube amp! But I am now playing SWR and love it. It has a lot of bottom end depending on what cab(s) you use. An SWR 810 will definitely give you a tremendous amount of bottom end.

I really don't see you getting that true bottom end out of ANY class D amp... at least with what's currently out there; and I have tried many. The GK Fusion will come the closest or maybe Carvin, though still not as good.

Let me say this though... I have had two Ashdown's and the EVO II is a very good amp. The EVO III on the other hand... now this is MY Opinion... $UX! I had problems with TWO EVO III's. China made and shows it. The EVO II is England made and was the best.

Good luck in your decision!

4-string · #3 12-11-2010, 11:34 AM

Actually, the ABM EVO IIs were also Chinese made, at least the later ones. I had an ABM EVO II 2x10 combo made in PRC. Sounded great, never had an issue.

I had the impression that there were issues initially right after the transition, and that things were now sorted. I've been wrong before.

**Ronny49** · #4 12-11-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

Actually, the ABM EVO IIs were also Chinese made, at least the later ones. I had an ABM EVO II 2x10 combo made in PRC. Sounded great, never had an issue.

I had the impression that there were issues initially right after the transition, and that things were now sorted. I've been wrong before.

Well, my EVO was an older one and it was marked on the back of the head, MADE IN ENGLAND.

I loved that head, though it had finally gave way and that's when I purchased a new EVO III. Then that one blew out on me and I got another and that one also fizzled out. I don't know what it was, but I simply returned them both to their respective dealers (each were bought from separate shops). Then I bought an SWR head and am not looking back. I will say though that my SWR is Pre-Fender.

TrevorOfDoom · #5 12-11-2010, 12:30 PM

the Shuttle 9.0 will do the job. I used to play an EVO II and should have gotten the 9.0 when i sold the Ashdown.
also, the Orange Terror Bass is a beast of an amp with low end for days, but it's higher gain than the Ashdown and a bit darker.
I'd suggest the Shuttle 9.0. Put the tube gain at around noon, everything else to taste, and rock hard!

1kinal · #6 12-11-2010, 04:30 PM

I went from the ABM500 EVOII to the shuttle 6.0 and never really missed anything from the Ashdown. I've since sold the 6.0 and got a 9.0 which is the way to go IMO.

I would definately recommend the 9.0. I know a lot of people describe it as a super clean and tight sounding head, but to me it gets me everything I want. The low-end is not as massive as the ABM but I find it a good thing, it helps getting heard in the mix. The ABM had a tendency to get wooly in some rooms.

The 9.0 has way more low end than I'll ever need. It's the head I've always wanted. Tube pre, light, powerful, not too many knobs and doesn't sound sterile or scooped.

svtb15 · #7 12-11-2010, 06:04 PM

I had an early ABM500 EVO.. Great amp I rally liked it..
The Genz and EVO are really different animals..
Someone said they didnt think the class D amp would put out lows.. I really beg to differ.. I use a Shuttle9 and it put out some very deep lows.. Very full and round sounding.. And small too.
If you dig the Ashdown sound but are thinking of a GB amp, maybe you would enjoy the newer Genz Streamliner that will be coming out next month... it has 3 tubes in the front end preamp..

LarryR · #8 12-16-2010, 02:13 PM

Thank you all for your time on this.
While I dig the ABM (early UK model) my heart's not set on anything really.
I always feel I can make any amp sound ok. Sounds like the Shuttle 9.0 would do me fine if/when I decide to move to a smaller head. Thanks again gents.

BigOldHarry · #9 12-16-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

Anyone A/B'd them? Opinions?
I'm thinking of changing from my ABM to a lighter head, but, wonder if I'll miss the fat warmth the ABM provides. ABM has a pretty massive transformer for an SS head. Can class D powre really keep up?

I have the same head, and it does weight a freakin' ton... But man, I love the tone... I'll man up and keep schlepping - got a "Rack bag" for it that makes it much easier to manage.

LarryR · #10 01-20-2011, 06:31 PM

Got a Shuttle 9.0. Tried it out last night through my Sadowsky SA410. Man was I disappointed. I just couldn't get the same warm, girthy low end. I played with the preamp controls, EQ'ing et al.. I really bought in to the 900w @ 4ohm versus 500w thinking the added headroom would yield, tighter low end. Nyet! Now I'm trying to return the amp to the Retailer....and having difficulties. I'm 2 days past their return policy. WISH I coulda made the Shuttle work.

R Baer · #11 01-20-2011, 08:27 PM

I've owned both and IMO, the ABM500 and the Shuttle 6.0 are very different sounding amps. The ABM is all about huge, warm, fat low end. The Shuttle is more on the crisp and clean side of things. The ABM500 is one of my all time favorite amps and not many other amps can pull off a similar tone. Personally, i found the ABM's weight very manageable, but if you are really looking for smaller and lighter, I did hear the GB Streamliner at NAMM and I would say it's probably way more to your liking than the Shuttle 6.0.

LarryR · #12 01-20-2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Baer

I've owned both and IMO, the ABM500 and the Shuttle 6.0 are very different sounding amps. The ABM is all about huge, warm, fat low end. The Shuttle is more on the crisp and clean side of things. The ABM500 is one of my all time favorite amps and not many other amps can pull off a similar tone. Personally, i found the ABM's weight very manageable, but if you are really looking for smaller and lighter, I did hear the GB Streamliner at NAMM and I would say it's probably way more to your liking than the Shuttle 6.0.

ABM's weight is manageable. I was just hoping 20lbs less could fit the bill. Who wants a Shuttle 9.0??

**nostatic** · #13 01-20-2011, 08:39 PM

Larry, I've got a GB Streamliner showing up, maybe by next week. I've also got a GK MB Fusion. Ping me and come check them out. I'm not missing my ABM500 at this point. I think the Shuttles are *not* the ones to compare with the Ashdown.

LarryR · #14 01-20-2011, 08:56 PM

Todd,
Thanks for the invite.
I should clarify. I know not to compare. But, using the same bass (Fender P w/Delano p/u) and cab (Sadowsky SA410), the 900w Shuttle didn't have the solid, clear note and volume of the Ashdown... albeit at high volume. The variables rear their heads. Wrong cab for Shuttle? Wrong pickup? EQ? Since the retailer (musicpower) won't refund me, I'll work on such things... if I can't get it to go, I'll sell.

**nostatic** · #15 01-20-2011, 10:20 PM

I don't own a Shuttle and have only fiddle with one briefly. My sense is that the inherent voicing in the Shuttle is more "hi fi" whereas the Ashdown is "lo fi". While you can eq the Shuttle to try and get there, it is kind of like shoving a round peg into an octagonal hole. It'll come close but won't quite fill the hole out.

We can run all 3 heads through your cab and see what flies - at least then you'll have some data points to work from and can try and target things through EQ. I believe the Sadowsky cab was made by Bergantino and I've got a couple of Berg cabs, though they are Neos and will sound different. Maybe if Harry is in town he can bring his Ashdown (if you've already sold yours) and we can A/B everything and see what can be dialed in.

LarryR · #16 01-20-2011, 10:40 PM

You're right (hi-fi, lo-fi). And I have to say I do like the GB. I bought it for its parametric EQ and headroom. It's just not a down and dirty phat machine. I was hoping it would satisfy all amp needs (electric and upright) replacing my Ashdown and PJB heads. I'll contact you privately if I want to A/B it. I may just sell it and stick with what was working. thanks again my man.

gillento · #17 01-21-2011, 02:29 AM

Well, I've owned all 3 versions of the ABM500RC (you are right, the EVO2 sounds best) and I had the Shuttle 6.0
They seem to be voiced for a different instrument altogether!

Yesterday I ordered a GB Streamliner 6 based on the comments its would go into the Sadowsky SA200 direction (which is my fav amp ever). But living in Europe it should take a few weeks for the amp to arrive at my place.

btw, the ABM500/SA410 combination really rocks ! (although I prefer the Aguilar db212 over the SA410)....

davidprice · #18 01-21-2011, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

We can run all 3 heads through your cab and see what flies - at least then you'll have some data points to work from and can try and target things through EQ. I believe the Sadowsky cab was made by Bergantino and I've got a couple of Berg cabs, though they are Neos and will sound different. Maybe if Harry is in town he can bring his Ashdown (if you've already sold yours) and we can A/B everything and see what can be dialed in.

If you do this, please post your impressions - I, for one, am interested. I have a couple (UK made) ABM EVOII heads and have been thinking about either the MB Fusion or the new Streamliner as a lighter weight alternative to that sort of vibe and am interested if they can cop that lo-fi feel even if not duplicating the ABM sound.

KJung · #19 01-21-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryR

Todd,
Thanks for the invite.
I should clarify. I know not to compare. But, using the same bass (Fender P w/Delano p/u) and cab (Sadowsky SA410), the 900w Shuttle didn't have the solid, clear note and volume of the Ashdown... albeit at high volume. The variables rear their heads. Wrong cab for Shuttle? Wrong pickup? EQ? Since the retailer (musicpower) won't refund me, I'll work on such things... if I can't get it to go, I'll sell.

The Shuttle 9 is voiced quite differently from the Ashdown.. brighter, tighter, more 'modern' for lack of a better term. When you combine that with the SA410, which was developed by Jim Bergantino and Roger to be paired with a tube amp (and hence it is voiced VERY tight down low to control the big low end a tube amp puts out, and also to increase the sensitivity, since an all tube amp doesn't put out quite the wump in wattage as a bit solid state amp) with the tight and bright Shuttle 9 with its very modern voicing, that IMO would not be my favorite combination.

Also, once you get past a good honest 500 watts with most cabinets, even large high quality ones, you won't notice much difference in volume or tone. The Shuttle 9 really shines into 8ohms (due to the ICE modules they use), but will not 'blow away' a good quality 500 watt solid state amp like your ashdown IMO and IME.

While I typically hate those 'on/off' bass boosts, with your cab and also your reference of the fat, warm, big Ashdown, you might want to engage that and then EQ from there. To match the Ashdown tone, you might need to engage that bass boost, and then with the cab you have, roll back a bit of low mids with the semi-parametric mid control. Another thing to try is to turn the secondary gain control all the way up, and leaving the primary tube gain a touch lower... which is the most 'clean' setting on that amp... that will help a bit with opening the low end in combination with the bass boost with your particular cab IMO.

Good luck. It is a nice head, but is pretty different from the Ashdown. There are other micro's that have a bit more of that inherent warm, big, low end in their tone.

Edit: A cab that has a more natural bass extension, like the new Bergantino AE212 (55 pounds) would go a long way for you with the Shuttle match-up IMO.

LarryR · #20 01-21-2011, 09:25 AM

@Ken, I did try the ultra clean setup on the amp (tube pre low, secondary gain high). I tried the boosts. Tried it all during a 3 hour jam. You're right. Wrong combination of cab and head. Obviously by starting this thread, I had my doubts goin' in and my tests bear it out. Again though, I'm looking for a minor miracle.... a micro that can do both upright transparent and electric rock n roll. I shoulda axed more questions before I impulsively purchased. LESSONS learned (i pray). The other head I thought about was Markbass F1 for its parametric. I've had Walter Woods's's' which was a very good double-duty amp. It was just too much dough tied up in one unit.

My economic sitch, and general weariness keeps me from experimenting with diff cabs.
@Gillento, noted your preference for the DB212. 'ppreciate your feedback.
@Ken, noted the AE212. I do love Jim's stuff.