Ashdown MAG600 Volume?

[Toadsmacker]

Hey there everybody,

I recently purchased an Ashdown MAG 600 head along with a MAG 410 cabinet. Great build quality, beautiful, and it's got a great tone. However, in a jam with a guitarist friend and his 16-watt Line 6 amp, he came out on top. I was far from overpowered, in fact I could have easily turned up a little more volume (input and output knobs are at 12:00) and drowned him out. That being said, for volume at the halfway point isn't that quite ridiculous to be just about on par with a 16 watt practice amp?

So I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to what my input and output settings should be? Is this unusual? It's my first "real" amp purchase and I'm hoping to keep it because it's tone is just wonderful

Thanks!

EDIT: There was also a drummer in this jam. All in all pretty good mix, but assuming that the guitarist had a 100 watt amp, would I be screwed?

[RickenBoogie]

Depends mostly on the sensitivity of your cab, and whether it's an 8 ohm or 4 ohm cab. I would assume it's 8, so there's part of the problem. Get another identical 410, (for 4 ohms and 8 10's), and leave no doubt.

[Toadsmacker]

My budget doesn't allow me to purchase another 410 cab at the moment. Any other opinions by anybody? The guys are coming for another jam on the weekend, so we'll see about the volume issue. If it's no good to just turn up the volume, am I better off to return both the head and the cab and test out more alternatives?

[rovito]

Don't be afraid to turn it up. If it's working correctly you have to push the knobs up a good bit. Keep the VU under the red and turn up the master. The tone controls add a great deal of volume.

[Toadsmacker]

Maybe this is a better question to ask:

Would ANY 600w head (be it Ashdown, Ampeg, GK, or any other) played through a 410 cab with an 8 ohm impedance have the same amount of volume? I'm guessing that players with a similar setup have a similar volume level and of course an understanding guitarist could turn his level down to create a better mix.

But thanks to RickenBoogie and Rovito for your suggestions, I think I might be getting over my worry!

[1kinal]

Originally Posted by Toadsmacker

Maybe this is a better question to ask:

Would ANY 600w head (be it Ashdown, Ampeg, GK, or any other) played through a 410 cab with an 8 ohm impedance have the same amount of volume? I'm guessing that players with a similar setup have a similar volume level and of course an understanding guitarist could turn his level down to create a better mix.

But thanks to RickenBoogie and Rovito for your suggestions, I think I might be getting over my worry!

No, the number of watts vs volume differ from one manufacturer to another.

As a side note, even if you have the MAG600, if you're just using one 8ohm cabinet, the amp only puts out about 300 watts.

Second, the gain structure on the MAG heads is a little weird. I've found that you have to plug into the passive input most of the time even with an active bass. After that, even in the passive input, you really have to put the gain very high to get the right gain level. So don't be afraid to turn it up. Once you've got the gain correctly set, adjust the master to the desired volume. Also note that any change to the amp's EQ qill affect the gain. For example, boosting the bass control will also boost the gain so you may need to adjust the gain after doing some heavy EQing.

[Toadsmacker]

Originally Posted by 1kinal

No, the number of watts vs volume differ from one manufacturer to another.

As a side note, even if you have the MAG600, if you're just using one 8ohm cabinet, the amp only puts out about 300 watts.

Second, the gain structure on the MAG heads is a little weird. I've found that you have to plug into the passive input most of the time even with an active bass. After that, even in the passive input, you really have to put the gain very high to get the right gain level. So don't be afraid to turn it up. Once you've got the gain correctly set, adjust the master to the desired volume. Also note that any change to the amp's EQ qill affect the gain. For example, boosting the bass control will also boost the gain so you may need to adjust the gain after doing some heavy EQing.

That's interesting, I'll definately try that. I primarily play an active bass, so will there be any problems or damage caused by plugging an active bass in to the passive input?

[1kinal]

Originally Posted by Toadsmacker

That's interesting, I'll definately try that. I primarily play an active bass, so will there be any problems or damage caused by plugging an active bass in to the passive input?

No problem as long as you keep the VU meter under the red part. Active and passive inputs are similar, just that one (the active) has a pad (ex: -15db) to compensate the extremely high output from certain basses. Try both and use the one that sounds better and keep the VU meter moving when the gain is closest to noon. I suspect you'll have better results with the passive input.

When I played the MAG line I was using MTD (korean) basses which are active. Even with boosting the on-board bass control (which also boost the level of the instrument), I'd still need to put the gain knob on the head around 2 o'clock to get a great gain level.

[sevenyearsdown]

I've used a MAG300 through a 4x10 as a practice rig for a while. Never had any volume problems. I always play a passive fender p.

That being said, I agree that the gain on the Ashdowns is important with the setup. If the gain is set correctly, those things will move plenty of air even set flat.

[Toadsmacker]

I plugged in to the passive input as suggested, there was an immediate difference. MUCH louder. I'll leave it to myself to tweak my gain and EQ settings to avoid peaking and distortion.

Big thanks for all of your help!

[moles]

FYI - the inputs on that amp are not labelled "passive" and "active" for a reason - they're labelled High and Low, because that's what they are...

Low = your garden variety instrument level low impedance - around 500kOhm (roughly - can't find my manual right now, and I'm too lazy to google it...)

High=high impedance - 3.8 (ish) Mohms and also has a 12dB boost. This would be more useful for piezo equipped double basses, or low-output pickups, etc.

I use whichever one sounds better that day, and adjust the gain accordingly.

Also, by all means do pick up a second MAG410 when you can afford it. But for now, a +1 to just going ahead and turning up. It seems (IME) that there is plenty of headroom left for the power amp, even when turning right up. As long as your gain structure is good, and you're not farting out your speakers....etc...

[Eater_of_Birds]

any idea if the mag 600 would work with the a mag 1x15 and a mag 2x10 ? or would just the 4x10 be a better choice?

[rovito]

Personally I would go with the 410. It will have about the same volume as the 210+115 and it will leave you with the option of adding a second 410 later if you need it.

[Sten]

As said, turn the gain so that on your loudest notes the VU meter almost hits red. Then you can judge the loudness of the amp. On many other amps there is a red "clip" indicator which basically gives the same information as the VU meter on Ashdown amps - just thought you should know.

Generally, mixing different speaker sizes can lead to unwanted results. If you can test it out and it sounds good, go for it. If you cannot test beforehand, use identical cabinets (for example two 1x15"s, two 2x10"s or two 4x10"s). My preference would be two 2x10" cabinets, but if we are talking Ashdown MAG range, then 4x10" and 2x10" are almost the same price and it would mean double cost for the rig (2*2x10" vs 4x10").

[Eater_of_Birds]

cool, cheers. the reason i would consider going for to seperate cabs is purely if i only need one, id be able to leave one, but yeah financially the 4x10 would be best. i definately cant see having 2 4x10's purely for the space issue.

[moles]

It's a good idea to be careful when mixing two different cab types - I tend to think it's not as much of an issue when dealing with the same brand/line, for whatever reason. Either way, my limited experience with the mag 1x15 and 2x10 tells me they wouldn't be a horrible match.

What you'd get out of that setup: a compact cab array, that still draws 4 ohms for maximum headroom out of the amp. Unfortunately, the power rating for those cabs isn't the greatest, so you wouldn't be able to turn up the amp as much as you may need to.

[Eater_of_Birds]

yeah the lower rating is a problem :/ might be better to go for a 4x10 for that reason, im competing with 2 jcm 800's at earshattering volumes (some hyperbole here, but not much) so id need to get the most out of it. prices for this rig are pretty decent, only had experience of a mag combo before, but it was pretty nice.

[Sten]

When competing with two JCM800's I do not think you'd benefit from a modular setup since you'd always need to bring both cabs anyway

[moles]

Quit screwing around then and get the 8x10.